# Virginia election-talk me down off the ledge **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496 "2021-10-29T23:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/161 "2021-11-04T17:47:32Z")
**Modnote** : Lets drop the CRT hijack immediately. You’re already arguing your pet topic in the pit aren’t you? Keep this up and I’ll suggest a topic ban. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/162 "2021-11-04T17:59:27Z")
FYI, McAuliffe set a new record for votes for a Democratic gubernatorial candidate in Virginia. His campaign did, in fact, motivate D voters to get to the polls. [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0rRuFaEXfy-Ix8Juz3HGM6d_11DXUOLs86-wtARtUZtkyw_cdVB99v5BR3U1CF9O8ykwfOoE6Jda2CdA9NoEh6AlNNof5JlJ5qFACr5aKsXkJ4VHpqlHsFAdz-6xL8qKv9yYUPP87Q=w600-h315-p-k "New item by K S") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/vruEcshzBXGEByMC9) ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/163 "2021-11-04T19:00:11Z")
> **Drop CRT** > > > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > > > > [@UltraVires](#): > > > > > > hy doesn’t the President, at the beginning of the meeting, say: > > > > > > > “I see this room is full of people ready to string us up from the tree outside here. But your anger is misplaced. We do not, and have no intention, of introducing CRT to the curriculum of our public schools. It is not there. > > > > And the crowd responds, “ **LIAR!!!**!” > > Yep, because it’s been said, over and over, that CRT is NOT being taught in the K-12 curriculum. Yet Conservatives continue to scream about it. Because “CRT” is just another code Conservatives use - in this case it means they don’t want any American history that mentions slavery, racism, or any topic that makes white people look bad, taught. > > And Martin\_Hyde has it exactly right – Dems need to get off their ‘take the high road’ stance and fight fire with fire. When Republicans say ‘no CRT in our schools’, Dems need to respond with ‘how about bible study?’ (A few years back, there was a federal lawsuit to stop WV schools teaching bible study classes and there are likely lots of other examples). Dems need to use short, simple responses that show voters what the actual choices are. How can a national party be so bad at this. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/164 "2021-11-04T19:03:24Z")
**Modnote** : Drop the CRT side discussion. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/165 "2021-11-04T19:45:19Z")
So concerning the Va. governor’s race, isn’t this the point at which the loser is supposed to start crying petulantly about fraud and demanding audits? Or is that just a Republican thing? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/166 "2021-11-04T19:49:55Z")
I thought it was a Stacey Abrams thing. Or perhaps a Hillary Clinton thing. Or maybe a Diebold Conspiracy when George Bush was fraudulently elected the second time. No wait, it’s an Al Gore thing, who had an election stolen from him. No, it was the Russians and Facebook who got Trump elected. There hasn’t been a Republican elected to the Presidency since George Bush I in 1988 where Democrats did not spread ‘stolen election’ conspiracy theories. Has Stacey Abrams ever said that her opponent won fair and square? Did you ever get to the bottom of the diabolical Diebold machine election steal? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/167 "2021-11-04T19:59:01Z")
When was the last Democratic Presidential loser to _never_ concede the results of the election? When was the last Democratic Presidential loser to call a Secretary of State and ask them to “find me some votes” during recounts? When was the last Democratic Presidential loser to give a speech the same day as the electoral college certification was occurring in Congress, telling their supporters the election had been stolen? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/168 "2021-11-04T20:11:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There hasn’t been a Republican elected to the Presidency since George Bush I in 1988 where Democrats did not spread ‘stolen election’ conspiracy theories. There have been 3 elections since GB I in 1988 won by Republicans. In 2 of those, the Republican won on electoral votes but lost the popular vote. I don’t think you’re painting a real compelling argument here, Sam. Nobody’s saying that Trump won in 2016 as a result of a stolen election, except Trump himself. Nobody’s saying that Bush II won in 2000 as a result of a stolen election – just that he may not have won at all if the Florida recount had been allowed to proceed. In other words, “election fraud” is a Republican thing. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/169 "2021-11-04T20:15:30Z")
I think he’s making a good point. The Dems had complained about all three Republican presidential victories since 1988 as being tainted in some way so they cannot claim that they have always acted graciously in defeat. The fact that Trump was worse doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/170 "2021-11-04T20:19:44Z")
We might want to distinguish between how the losing candidate acts, and how the most wing-nut element of the party responds to defeat. In every election from 1880 to 2012 the losing candidate has conceded graciously, even in the closest and most suspect elections (1960, 2000). In 2020 the loser went bat-shit crazy and dragged his whole party along for the ride. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/171 "2021-11-04T21:18:30Z")
Did Stacey Abrams concede gracefully? She came to national prominance with Democrats because the election was ‘stolen’ from her. Then there’s Hillary: > **[Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’: ‘We Still...](https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html)** > > Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear."There was a widespread understanding that this election \[in 2016\] was not... > **[Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/25/hillary-clinton-joe-biden-election-advice-401641)** > > "Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out," Clinton warned. From this past election: > **[McAuliffe claims Stacey Abrams should be governor of Georgia, furthering what...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcauliffe-stacey-abrams-should-be-governor-of-georgia)** > > Virginia Democratic gubernatorial candidate Terry McAuliffe claimed that Stacey Abrams should be the governor of Georgia, accusing Brian Kemp (who ran for governor while also serving as secretary of state) of having “disenfranchised” more than 1... A blast from the past: > **[Diebold’s Political Machine](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/03/diebolds-political-machine/)** > > Political insiders suggest Ohio could become as decisive this year as Florida was four years ago. Which is why the state's plan to use paperless touch-screen voting machines has so many up in arms. And in 2020, before Biden won and it became a crazy conspiracy theory worthy of getting you censored to complain about election machines: > **[Cyber Experts Warn Of Vulnerabilities Facing 2020 Election Machines](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/755066523/cyber-experts-warn-of-vulnerabilities-facing-2020-election-machines)** > > America's elections infrastructure is more secure than it was four years ago, but many lingering weaknesses won't be resolved in time for Election Day next year. And here’s some I forgot about with the Bush/Kerry election: > **[Ohio's Odd Numbers](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/03/hitchens200503)** > > No conspiracy theorist, and no fan of John Kerry's, the author nevertheless found the Ohio polling results impossible to swallow: Given what happened in that key state on Election Day 2004, both democracy and common sense cry out for a court-ordered... > **[Recounting Ohio](https://www.motherjones.com/media/2005/11/recounting-ohio/)** > > Was Ohio stolen? You might not like the answer. > **[A Stolen Election?](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/stolen-election/)** > > Before the vote-counting was done, the e-mails started arriving. The election's been stolen! Fraud! John Kerry won! In the following days, these charges flew over the Internet. > **[Was the 2004 Election Stolen?: A Debate on Ohio One Year After Bush’s Victory](https://www.democracynow.org/2005/11/4/was_the_2004_election_stolen_a)** > > A year later, questions remain over the outcome of the Ohio election and whether George W. Bush fairly won the state and the presidency. We explore some of these questions with a debate between Mark Crispin Miller and Mark Hertsgaard. \[includes rush... In the meantime, which Republicans other than Trump claimed the election was stolen when they lost? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/172 "2021-11-04T21:21:49Z")
This Atlantic article is very relevant: > **[You Can’t Win Elections by Telling Voters Their Concerns Are Imaginary](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/virginia-election-wakeup-call-democrats/620595/)** > > Virginia is sending Democrats a warning: They’ve lost control of the narrative about education. Regardless of whether Republicans hyping up various “concerns” were real or not, as long as those concerns were legit _ **in the minds of voters,** _ Democrats had to take them seriously, or else lose votes. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/173 "2021-11-04T21:28:45Z")
Seriously. History is made of facts. It can’t be rewritten. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-yHgE9W699w/maxresdefault.jpg "Hillary Clinton Concession Speech") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yHgE9W699w) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/174 "2021-11-04T21:33:07Z")
Yes, and one of those ‘facts’ is that even though she conceded, she still kept bringing up ‘questions’ about whether the election was stolen. This is also ‘fact’, from my previous link: > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear. > > “There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level,” Clinton said during an interview for the [latest episode](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/hillary-clinton-doing-now-2020/616668/) of _The Atlantic’s_ politics podcast, _The Ticket_ . “We still don’t know what really happened.” > > “There’s just a lot that I think will be revealed. History will discover,” the Democratic Party’s 2016 presidential nominee continued. “But you don’t win by 3 million votes and have all this other shenanigans and stuff going on and not come away with an idea like, ‘Whoa, something’s not right here.’ That was a deep sense of unease.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/175 "2021-11-04T21:37:05Z")
How many lawsuits has Clinton filed about the election? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/176 "2021-11-04T21:40:39Z")
Not even a cyber ninja singular in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/177 "2021-11-04T21:41:43Z")
If I get out a pair of binoculars and look real carefully, I think I can still see the goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/178 "2021-11-04T21:53:56Z")
With the binoculars can you see a Trump concession speech? How about a McAulife concession speech. No binos required for that one, unless you want to see nose hairs! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/179 "2021-11-04T22:43:29Z")
We weren’t talking about concession speeches at all. You started that goalpost move because you can’t refute that Democrats have been calling elections stolen since 1988. I well remember the Diebold conspiracy threads on this very board. We just had Terry McCauliffe repeat the claim that Stacey Abrams had her election stolen. BTW, did she offer a concession speech? I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496/180 "2021-11-04T22:45:17Z")
No, no. I didn’t move any goalpost. I just wondered, with McAulife having lost, if it was an appropriate time for him to start petulantly crying about fraud and demanding audits, or if that was just a Republican thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-election-talk-me-down-off-the-ledge/953496.md?page=10)