# Virginia strikes again - abortion clinics must pass hospital standards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521 "2011-02-24T23:53:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/101 "2016-06-27T14:55:08Z")
YEEEE-haw!! Can’t wait for the sweet, sweet music of Texas Republicans weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth! Suck on that for a while, you knuckle walking Bible thumping maroons! Did I already say YEEEE-haw!!? Fuck it, YEEEE-haw!! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/102 "2016-06-27T14:58:18Z")
Well, if this ends up nullifying Wisconsin’s mandatory ultrasound law, Bricker owes me two bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/103 "2016-06-27T15:08:12Z")
It doesn’t look like those potential onerous regulations in 2011 resulted in any clinic closures in Virginia, interestingly enough. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/104 "2016-06-27T15:10:02Z")
Two bucks? Wow, big spenders at the casino! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/105 "2016-06-27T15:21:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It doesn’t look like those potential onerous regulations in 2011 resulted in any clinic closures in Virginia, interestingly enough. The ‘chip away’ tactic has resulted in [closings](http://www.lifenews.com/2013/04/19/abortion-clinic-that-cant-meet-new-virginia-health-standards-closes/), not that it matters to you the suffering that abortion clinics have to go through to do their god-given duty. Since 2011, Virginia has lost about [a third](http://bluevirginia.us/2016/06/scotus-abortion-clinic-ruling-also-virginia-right-wingers) of their first trimester abortion providers, but you go on thinking that those rules do nothing to impact them. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/106 "2016-06-27T15:24:14Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Abortion is obviously abominable and its perpetrators (especially the mothers) the worst type of killers. I’m not going to try to change your mind…but you do realize that there are plenty of women on this very board who have had abortions? Are you really ok with calling them the “worst type of killers”? I’m just curious because a lot of very nasty stuff is said on this board in a neutral generic way. I just want to know if you are ok with being that nasty to people you may interact with in every day. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/107 "2016-06-27T15:33:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It doesn’t look like those potential onerous regulations in 2011 resulted in any clinic closures in Virginia, interestingly enough. Three clinics closed as a result of the regulations - 15% of the total clinics. The remaining have waivers so they don’t have to meet the TRAP regulations. The rules were [recommended for amendment](https://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2014/12/05/virginia-board-of-health-votes-to-amend-regulations-closing-the-states-clinics/), and as of May 2015, [the Attorney General announced that nobody needs to meet the regulations while they are being amended.](https://rewire.news/article/2015/05/05/virginia-attorney-general-abortion-clinics-dont-need-comply-trap-law/) All of this happened because the anti-choice Governor and Attorney General were voted out. This has never been about safety, it’s always been about politics. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/108 "2016-06-27T15:36:11Z")
**Bricker** , you are wrong. You are _sincerely_ wrong, wrong for reasons of religion that I am bound by principle to respect. Still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/109 "2016-06-27T15:48:31Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I’m not going to try to change your mind…but you do realize that there are plenty of women on this very board who have had abortions? Are you really ok with calling them the “worst type of killers”? There are probably people who have committed rape on the board too, should I worry about offending them? Abortion is monstrously immoral unless going to term would present a risk to the mother’s health (physical health), or the fetus has been determined to have defects making it incompatible with life. FWIW, I favor legal abortion anyway–it means less poor people and less unwanted babies, and importantly less Democrat voters (while I’m voting HRC this year it’s not in my long term interests for Dems to have a permanent demographic advantage.) But while I’m fine with its legality, that doesn’t mean I do not view its practitioners as immoral. > [@](#): > > I’m just curious because a lot of very nasty stuff is said on this board in a neutral generic way. I just want to know if you are ok with being that nasty to people you may interact with in every day. Absolutely, yes. I have no problem with that, and never have. We shouldn’t coddle or dissemble with people who we view as immoral. I’ve never understood why that would be a desirable behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/110 "2016-06-27T15:53:48Z")
Ok then. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/111 "2016-06-27T15:59:14Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > FWIW, I favor legal abortion anyway–it means less poor people and less unwanted babies, and importantly less Democrat voters… As long as the _right_ “babies” are aborted, that’s o.k. with you? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/112 "2016-06-27T16:00:14Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > FWIW, I favor legal abortion anyway–it means less poor people and less unwanted babies, and importantly less Democrat voters (while I’m voting HRC this year it’s not in my long term interests for Dems to have a permanent demographic advantage.) But while I’m fine with its legality, that doesn’t mean I do not view its practitioners as immoral. Wait, so you find mother who abort to be the “worst type of killers”, say worse than the Orlando shooter, but at the same time your glad that its legal because it might mean less poor people? :dubious: You need to get your priorities straight. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/113 "2016-06-27T16:12:05Z")
If **Martin Hyde** believes that aborting embryos is the same thing as killing babies, and that it is o.k. to abort the “right”(inferior) kind of babies, what does that make him? Hey, **Martin** -now that you’ve stated that it’s o.k. to kill inferior babies, at what age should a limit be set? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/114 "2016-06-27T16:13:16Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > … but at the same time your glad that its legal because it might mean less poor people? :dubious: > > … I think Righties call that “Morality”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/115 "2016-06-27T16:17:45Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There are probably people who have committed rape on the board too, should I worry about offending them? Abortion is monstrously immoral unless going to term would present a risk to the mother’s health (physical health), or the fetus has been determined to have defects making it incompatible with life. > > FWIW, I favor legal abortion anyway–it means less poor people and less unwanted babies, and importantly less Democrat voters (while I’m voting HRC this year it’s not in my long term interests for Dems to have a permanent demographic advantage.) But while I’m fine with its legality, that doesn’t mean I do not view its practitioners as immoral. > > Absolutely, yes. I have no problem with that, and never have. We shouldn’t coddle or dissemble with people who we view as immoral. I’ve never understood why that would be a desirable behavior. So I guess you’d be totally okay that people might find you incredibly immoral for advocating for the murder of people you seem to consider inferior, right? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/116 "2016-06-27T16:27:53Z")
I love this part. It made me smile. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > [snip] > > FWIW, I favor legal abortion anyway–it means less poor people and less unwanted babies, and importantly less Democrat voters Because only those dirty, dirty Democrats get abortions. Clean, upstanding, pure Republican women never do. I try to link to the most neutral source when I cite something, but obviously, it’s difficult to find truly objective material about abortion stats. Having said that, here are two opposing sites that give virtually useless information, but I’ll quote them anyway, then explain why. > **[women\_who\_have\_abortions.pdf](https://prochoice.org/wp-content/uploads/women_who_have_abortions.pdf)** > > 28.25 KB (PDF) > [@](#): > > In 2000, 57% of women who had abortions had some college education, 88% were from metropolitan areas, 57% were low income. > **[U.S. Abortion Statistics](https://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/)** > > Facts and figures relating to the frequency of abortion in the United States. > [@](#): > > WHO HAS ABORTIONS? > > ``` > In 2012, unmarried women accounted for 85.3% of all abortions (CDC). > Women living with a partner to whom they are not married account for 25% of abortions but only about 10% of women in the population (NAF). > > Black women were 3.6 times more likely to have an abortion in 2012 than non-Hispanic white women (CDC). > The abortion rate of non-metropolitan women is about half that of women who live in metropolitan counties (NAF). > The abortion rate of women with Medicaid coverage is three times as high as that of other women (NAF). > > ``` > **[Who's getting abortions? Not who you'd think](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna22689931)** > > In American pop culture, the face of abortion is often a frightened teenager, nervously choosing to terminate an unexpected pregnancy. The numbers tell a far more complex story. > [@](#): > > Who has abortions? > In fact, the women come from virtually every demographic sector. But year after year the statistics reveal that black women and economically struggling women — who have above-average rates of unintended pregnancies — are far more likely than others to have abortions. About 13 percent of American women are black, yet new figures from the Centers for Disease Control show they account for 35 percent of the abortions. The poor and minority women seem to have abortion rates higher than other demographics. But nowhere in my short search have I found that it’s primarily (or overwhelmingly, for that matter) Democrats who have abortions. We can also postulate that if poor women have more unintended pregnancies than Susie Homemaker (R-WASP), then the solution is better access to birth control, not abortions. (I’m pro-rights, and think that abortion should be safe, legal, accessible, and a last resort.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/117 "2016-06-27T16:40:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As long as the _right_ “babies” are aborted, that’s o.k. with you? :eek: No, I think he meant “left” babies. Right babies are the good ones! **Martin** : I often look for you to be a voice of reason on the conservative side of things on this MB, but your views on abortion are, frankly, despicable. You think abortion is murder, and I can respect that, but to sanction what you think is murder for political purposes is… truly despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/118 "2016-06-27T17:11:44Z")
It’s precisely why Nixon essentially supported funding family planning and was philosophically more or less pro-choice. I also find **Leo Krupe** ’s post odd, his proof for my claim that abortion means leans Democrats is in the very data he presents, as the data show the poor and blacks are more likely to abort, and those are overwhelmingly more likely to vote Democrat. Unwanted babies are a societal ill. They have worse outcomes across the board. They are more likely to grow up to be criminals, more likely to grow up to be low income, uneducated etc. Even their IQ is likely to be lower. There’s all kinds of studies showing this to be true. You guys are trying to paint me as some sort of eugenicist, which is not accurate. I can view the decision to have an abortion as an immoral personal decision, but view the net effects of allowing abortion to be performed as a net societal positive. There would also be societal negatives from disallowing abortion, the rise of black-market abortions, potentially more infanticides, “self abortions” using dangerous drug cocktails and other old-school methods that do somewhat work but are very dangerous etc. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/119 "2016-06-27T17:13:48Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Wait, so you find mother who abort to be the “worst type of killers”, say worse than the Orlando shooter, but at the same time your glad that its legal because it might mean less poor people? :dubious: > > You need to get your priorities straight. One might remember I posted that 5 years ago, long before the Orlando shooting, so my state of mind at the time, I am not sure how I’d have compared it to a mass shooter. A mother that aborts (outside of the exceptions I’ve listed) is no different than any mother that commits infanticide, and that’s generally among the most immoral type of murders because of the duty of care motherhood brings. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521/120 "2016-06-27T17:19:19Z")
A pity it isn’t possible to give “You’re despicable!” the total Daffy Duck delivery here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-strikes-again-abortion-clinics-must-pass-hospital-standards/572521.md?page=7)