# Virgowitch, stop being a Bastard **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311 "2003-01-17T21:16:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/1 "2003-01-17T21:16:28Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=157041](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=157041) You started out with an interesting premise. Let me rephrase it for you: Is it ok to intentionaly set out to be a single parent? But we aren’t talking about that. We are talking about how you insist on referring to children as “bastards.” We tried to let you know - politely - that bastard was not an appropriate word to refer to a child. Yet you persist. Rather than hijack that thread further - and because I’m tempted to start using words appropriate for this forum - if you would further like to defend your use of the word bastard, please do so here. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/2 "2003-01-17T21:25:54Z")
Boy that other thread was sure fucking bizarre. If I was Virgo, I would just let it go already. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/3 "2003-01-17T21:27:44Z")
Thanks, Dangerosa. The fact that VirgoWitch is so big on honor makes this all the more puzzling. Where I come from, anyone that picks on an innocent kid (and you most assuredly have) is dishonorable. Yes, yes…we all know that it used to be used as a descriptive word. And we know Shakespeare used is 90 times. Big fucking deal. The current connotation is insulting and belittling. But I’m sure you’ll continue to behave in the mean, self-righteous way you did in the other thread. Only this time, I can give you the big FUCK YOU. So FUCK YOU. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/4 "2003-01-17T21:30:00Z")
The only correct modern usage of the word “bastard” that I’m aware of is to describe people who act like **Virgowitch** in the linked thread. What a knob. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/5 "2003-01-17T21:45:39Z")
I’m always impressed by people who manage to get pitted in under 20 posts, myself. Had to do it myself, but I think Kalhoun would have done it before she got to twenty-five, anyway, if I hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/6 "2003-01-17T21:47:02Z")
Well, I’ve used the term “bastard” to refer to a child born outisde of wedlock before, and maybe will again, but you’re right, it has picked up a really perjorative meaning. What term should I use, though? “Illegitimate”? “Natural-born”? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/7 "2003-01-17T21:47:50Z")
**Virgo,** here’s a little test for you to see just how the public views the use of the word “bastard:” Find some news service (say, _TIME_ magazine) that will publish a Letter to the Editor, and talk about Madonna’s child, who was born out of wedlock. Refer to the child as a bastard. Let us know how that works out. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/8 "2003-01-17T21:48:25Z")
Heck, I’d offer my thoughts, but I guess I’m too much of a putz! My wife’s dad had 2 kids by a woman other than my MIL. The younger uses the web Johnny Bastard. (Johnny is a pseudonym.) And now “Johnny” just had his 3d kid with his mate of several years, a woman he is not married to. What would be the honorable thing to call these kids? Bastards 2 times over? Silly me, I simply use their names. Maybe the VW might start a new line of Shakesbeer endorsed bastid masks? Virgowitch offered her honor… ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/9 "2003-01-17T21:48:44Z")
Child works for me. You don’t need to attach any pejorative meaning to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/10 "2003-01-17T21:55:58Z")
Sometimes US state laws (to distinguish from Pergobitch’s desire for international debate) make a distinction of “marital child” in assessing paternity. Primarily because there is a rebuttable presumption that a child conceived and born during a marriage is the husband’s child. But as we tried to point out, once paternity is established, US state laws are pretty content to consider children simply that - children. Hell, I can’t even work myself up to rant a nice insult for the honorable Miss Thing. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/11 "2003-01-17T21:56:24Z")
Well, obviously s/he’s got an axe to grind, but I just wanna say that I’ve seen a few other folks get off to a really bumpy “Hi, I’m here, and I’ve got an axe to grind, now that I found this wonderful free Internet forum” start in Great Debates, and they eventually settled down into decent posters, so… See how it’s going this time next week. Although I have to say that the early use of the Putz smilie does not forbode well… ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/12 "2003-01-17T22:01:26Z")
Captain Amazing said, “Well, I’ve used the term “bastard” to refer to a child born outisde of wedlock before, and maybe will again, but you’re right, it has picked up a really perjorative meaning. What term should I use, though? “Illegitimate”? “Natural-born”?” I think the term “baby” works well, or if you know the kid, you can call him by his given name. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/13 "2003-01-17T22:05:06Z")
The thing is, it disses the child and not the parents. Not that anyone should be dissed in this day and age. VirgoPutz, on the other hand, was just born to suck. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/14 "2003-01-17T22:05:56Z")
Yeah, DDG…although I gave her plenty of chances to back down. I always like to believe the best of people - so hopefully, she will calm down. And Dinsdale, keep your opinions and professional expertise to yourself - you putz 😃 And Captain Amazing: Compare the following: “My nephew is having a hard time in school. We wonder if it has something to do with the fact that my sister decided to raise him without a husband.” and “My nephew is having a hard time in school. We wonder if it has something to do with him being a bastard.” You can always say the same thing without using the word bastard - and usually its more meaningful, since most people assume the word bastard means jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/15 "2003-01-17T22:31:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dangerosa \* > \*\*Compare the following: > > “My nephew is having a hard time in school. We wonder if it has something to do with the fact that my sister decided to raise him without a husband.” > > and > > “My nephew is having a hard time in school. We wonder if it has something to do with him being a bastard.” > > You can always say the same thing without using the word bastard - and usually its more meaningful, since most people assume the word bastard means jerk. \*\* well, I’m not in the habit of talking about the parentage of my friends and family. When I used the word, it tended to be in sentences like: “Robert of Gloucester would have been the obvious successor to King Henry, but his bastardy kept him from the throne.” I guess I could say: “Robert of Gloucester would have been the obvious successor to King Henry, but his illegitimacy kept him from the throne.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/16 "2003-01-17T22:35:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\* > I think the term “baby” works well, or if you know the kid, you can call him by his given name. \*\* Well, like I said, I wouldn’t use it to refer to anyone now…whether someone was born in or out of wedlock doesn’t really have any effect on them in modern American society (except maybe for social stigma.) ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/17 "2003-01-17T22:43:00Z")
I judt don’t see a pit thread here. What I see is a “think of the children!” cry. It’s fucking pathetic. This could have been _easily_ settled in GD with out bringing a newbie to the pit. The thread itself is about loinguistics and its a shame to use the word bastard, yet y’all jump on her. From her OP: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by virgowitch_ > \*\*It’s a shame that linguistic blame for the situation is lain on the innocent child, when “bastard” would probably a better term for a father who leaves a pregnant woman, or a woman who decieves a man. \*\*Oh heavens, she said “bastard”. I think I’m getting the vapors! :rolleyes: She wants to discuss illegitimate children and the stigma attached to them through the use of the word “bastard” and societal attitudes in general. You say “don’t say that word”, then, y’all back her into a corner because her family uses it. This is the topic she wants to discuss, ya idiots! . She wants to discuss the word and it’s social stigma. Jesus H Christ, are you people thick?! “Bastard” is part of the English language. It’s not a pleasant word, but it is there. Deal with it. Ignoring it is not going to make it go away. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/18 "2003-01-17T22:50:43Z")
“Loinguistics”? I don’t even want to know… ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/19 "2003-01-17T23:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*“Loinguistics”? I don’t even want to know… \*\* I believe it’s the study of terms referring to the fruit of your _loins_. ---
**Author:** ![Virgowitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9fc348/32.png) [@Virgowitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Virgowitch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311/20 "2003-01-17T23:54:09Z")
\>this time, I can give you the big FUCK YOU. So FUCK YOU.\< Tsk, tsk. What a sad, angry little soul. I’m hearing some deep, repressed issues. Keep working on that vocabulary and next week we’ll try some big two syllable words.🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virgowitch-stop-being-a-bastard/149311.md?page=2)