# Virtual cd drives, legality Question. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 28, 2008, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940 "2008-12-28T08:02:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qwakkeddup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Qwakkeddup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwakkeddup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/1 "2008-12-28T08:02:14Z")
I have been reading up on how to let my kids play their pc games on the computer without having access to the original disk. I like to put the game on the computer and let it run from there. The original disk is then put away in a safe place. This works well with so-called casual games, they usually install wholly onto the hard drive. We bought several games for the children this Christmas, and There are at least two that will not start without the disk in the drive. When my games are like this it isn’t anything more than a pain. For the kids it is a death knell. They just cannot use the disks without scratching or losing them. The x-box that I tried to teach them the right way to handle the disks and a little responsibility is my proof. Out of twelve disks 5 are unusable, 2 are completely missing, the rest are at that unreliable stage. So for the main question, Is it legal for me to “clone” a pc game onto my hard drive? then using a virtual cd drive to run the game legal? If not end of that plan. If however it is legal to do, can anyone point me to a how to that will explain it in excruciating detail. Thank you for your input one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/2 "2008-12-28T08:14:15Z")
IANAL, but I believe that in the US, the [Digital Millennium Copyright Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA) broadly prohibits the bypassing of any electronic copy-protection technique, which some games use. I’m not sure if simply eliminating the need for a disc counts as circumvention (as opposed to games that use more advanced copy-protection software like SecuROM). If it doesn’t (maybe under fair use or something?), you can use programs like [Daemon Tools](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools) to run the game from a backed-up image on your hard drive. Again, IANAL and this is just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/3 "2008-12-28T08:16:13Z")
Rather than cloning the game and using a virtual drive to run it, you could look for a “no cd crack” which would stop the kids breaking the discs. I’m not sure if its legal, but considering you own the game it seems like a good solution. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/4 "2008-12-28T08:19:56Z")
(Missed edit window) There are also other solutions, such as buying your games online from a service like [Steam](http://store.steampowered.com/about/), negating the need for a disc to begin with. Additional methods are available if you already own the disc, but I think they’re illegal, so I can’t go into it here. Google for more info on your own if you must know! ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_The_Heavy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/5 "2008-12-28T13:16:29Z")
It’s not illegal unless you get caught. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/6 "2008-12-28T13:53:40Z")
> [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](#): > > It’s not illegal unless you get caught. What a lovely, and incorrect, sentiment. :rolleyes: Copying the disc in its entirety as an image to the hard drive may well be a violation of the license you purchased with the game to make copies of it. If so, then making the image and running the game from the image would most likely be a violation of both copyright law and the DMCA’s anti-circumvention provisions. You would have to read the license carefully to know for certain. What age are these children of yours? I had boys who as young as 4 were competent to handle CD/DVD games without damaging the games, and did so regularly; for the ones younger than that they were required to get a parent to insert the disc. In their youth, they only managed to damage one disc beyond playability. Now my bowling ball that they sent down the concrete driveway… :eek: So it is possible to control these things. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/7 "2008-12-28T14:01:49Z")
Using a virtual drive is legal. It’s the different cd images that may be illegal. Not all cd images you can make will be legal. Don’t be surprised when a game you install has software that interferes with your virtual drive software. They don’t care if it interferes with your legal uses. ---
**Author:** ![Qwakkeddup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Qwakkeddup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwakkeddup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/8 "2008-12-28T17:42:01Z")
It looks like limited access is the way I will have to go. I do have a steam account, but I don’t really know if I trust it to be my only backup. Even if they never go out of business or change their programming to the Nth degree. What if I cannot have internet access for some reason. What if they don’t offer the game I want? I like having a solid, tangible, product. I also like having the backup sitting on my shelf. I just think the disk should be installed on the computer and that is that. The case can sit on the shelf just in case, but you don’t need it to run the game. I think I will check with steam and see if they offer the few I have, I would be buying the games twice but I think I will just call it a learning curve or something. Thanks all. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/9 "2008-12-28T19:34:30Z")
> [@Qwakkeddup](#): > > I think I will check with steam and see if they offer the few I have, I would be buying the games twice but I think I will just call it a learning curve or something. Thanks all. If you already own a license key for a Steam game, you can register that and freely download the game to any computer you own. The only restriction they have is that you can only play it on one computer at a time, which seems reasonable enough to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/10 "2008-12-28T20:12:39Z")
You bought the game, so just do it. Legal or not, you’re not going to get caught (under any reasonable circumstance) and it’s not like you deprived them from the software – you did buy it after all. Be an empowered consumer! Parts of the DMCA (notably the part which may say you can’t do exactly what you want to do) is trash legislation anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/11 "2008-12-28T20:42:07Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Copying the disc in its entirety as an image to the hard drive may well be a violation of the license you purchased with the game to make copies of it. If so, then making the image and running the game from the image would most likely be a violation of both copyright law and the DMCA’s anti-circumvention provisions. You would have to read the license carefully to know for certain. The legal situation is not quite as clear cut as all that. A couple of nitpickyish points on this: First, the DMCA would be the most likely problem you would run into. However, several recent cases have leaned toward the position that copy protection schemes that are so simplistic as to be nearly ineffective are not really covered by the DMCA. There are no good cases on point so far, but there is quite a bit of dicta in that direction. So, a program that just checks for the CD is maybe not going to be a circumvention under the DMCA. The second issue is if making the copy violates copyright law. I’d say (being pedantic) that there are two related issues here – namely that the license might prohibit making copies and the other that copyright law itself would prevent a copy. WRT the license, they aren’t very well tested in court, and it’s more an issue of contract law than copyright itself. Realistically, no one would take you to court on a license breach theory; there is too much risk for both sides that a bad precedent would be set, and little reward for consumer level software. (Paradoxically, the software that really counts is generally owned by people that can afford lots of expensive lawyers 🙂 ) Copyright law has several “layers”. It would seem to prohibit making a copy even for backup or personal use at first glance at the statute, but the jurisprudence of copyright law has established some right to make original-media protection copies, which is exactly what you are trying to do. Legislatively, there is the AHRA, which illustrates a governmental intent to allow personal copying under certain circumstances. Again, a lot of cases have leaned toward allowing this sort of thing, as a backlash against MAI v Peak. Fair use can also be applied here, following Sony and its progeny, but I really hate discussing fair use because people tend to try and distill a vast tricky continuum down into a binary analysis that just isn’t realistic. Of course, seeing as this is the real world, I would say you might as well rip the CD and run it off of your hard drive. It’s certainly not a clear-cut legal question, more a very murky gray area that has no hard and fast rules. Furthermore, you aren’t the type of user that the copyright holder is going to be upset about; on the balance copying the CDs would be marginally on the legal side according to recent trends. So the real answer to your question is that no one REALLY knows because it’s pretty much untested. Practically, I would take a cue from the copyright holders and use this ambiguity to your own advantage – you have as much right to interpret the law as they do and they certainly will not use you as a test case. (Though admittedly, you have fewer dollars to make the law than they do :)) Worrying about the exact technical legality of this is sort of pointless – the ethical ramifications are almost nil, and the likelyhood that anyone will care is infinitestimal. IMO there’s no real value in worrying about being exactly technically “legal”, since the legality is fuzzy as it is, and almost no one can get through a week without doing something that could be construed as illegal. Please consult an lawyer of your own who will evaluate your case. I am not your lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/12 "2008-12-28T21:25:37Z")
One thing to do if you wanna try it, READ THE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT. I think they have copies of them in the back of the manuals now. They’re not all the same - some say “You may make a copy of this disc for archival purposes,” some say “You may NOT make any copy of this disc for any reason” and some say nothing on the matter. For the latter one, I’d recommend taking the safe route, but do whatever you please. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/13 "2008-12-29T02:37:57Z")
Is there such a thing as a CD changer for a computer? I have often thought of this as a solution to the OP’s problem (which has also bothered me). That way all the CDs are safely stored inside the computer. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/14 "2008-12-29T03:15:20Z")
The very first CD-ROM drive I owned required the owner to insert the disc in a special case before inserting the case and disc into the drive. I owned about three or four of the special cases so I could easily swap discs. Something like this would be a good solution for people who have small children in the house, but I don’t think they sell that sort of drive anymore. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virtual-cd-drives-legality-question/478940/15 "2008-12-29T03:19:05Z")
You could also try repairing the discs. From [here](http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Scratched-CD): > [@](#): > > Polish the CD. WARNING: this can damage the disk further! Use only as a last resort, and read the instructions carefully!! Though counter-intuitive, polishing a disc can repair a scratched CD by removing some of the outer plastic coating and thus making existing scratches shallower. A number of common household products can be used to polish the CD, but toothpaste — especially baking soda toothpaste — and Brasso are probably the most tried and true. You can also use a fine-grit polishing compound that’s used for cars or hard finishes. > > Apply a small amount of toothpaste (must be paste, not gel) or Brasso to a soft, clean, lint-free (old undershirt) cloth: an eyeglass-cleaning cloth works well. > > Gently rub the cloth on the scratch or scuff in a radial motion, (start at the center and rub out to the edge, like spokes on a wheel). Do this 10 or 12 times all around the CD. Rubbing in a circular motion can cause small scratches that throw off the laser tracking system in the player. Try to focus your efforts solely on the scratch or scratches you’ve identified (if possible). > > Polish in this manner for a couple of minutes, reapplying Brasso or toothpaste to the cloth as necessary. Be careful not to apply much pressure, although you will still be able to feel the cloth gently scratching the CD as it polishes. > > Remove polishing product from disc. If you used toothpaste, rinse the disc thoroughly with warm water and let dry. Make sure to remove all of the toothpaste and let the disc dry completely before trying to play it. With Brasso, wipe off excess product and let the rest dry. Then, using a clean cloth, gently wipe disc again. > > Test the disc. If the problem persists, polish again for up to 15 minutes or until the scratch is almost completely buffed out. The surface around the scratch should begin to look shiny with many tiny scratches. If you still don’t notice any difference after polishing for a few minutes, the scratch may be extremely deep, or you may be polishing the wrong scratch.