I whooly agree with CityGent. It was kind of the point of my OP. The only money that has true value is the money you earned.
What gets me is (if you’ve seen the commercial) is the kid’s smirk as he buys some useless item. Like this transaction is SOOO much more convenient paying with the card instead of cash.
Notice that the card in no way changes appearance before and after the transaction. Notice that $20.00 dollars given for an $18.50 cash transaction WILL change appearance. It becomes $1.50. There is a difference!
So anyone want to take me on how the plastic is better?
Lwet me just quickly explain how these are like my ATM card. My bank, and many others, hand out ATM/debit Visas with the Visa logo right in the corner that can be used wherever Visa is excepted and used as a regular ATM card. Your “credit limit” is however much is in your account. It is handy sometimes, but it’s easy to lose track of your balance. If you go over, it’s treated like a returned check.
That said, I guess I have no real objection, other than the fact that I hate credit card companies for their soul stealing marketing ploys.
Sure, the money “magically” appears in an account - just like the money “magically” enters into the kid’s hand when he gets it from his parents. It’s exactly the same concept, only - as you pointed out - with this particular card the parents can track how their kids spend that money.
You’re absolutely right, in my opinion, that the only way to get someone to truly appreciate the value of the money is for them to work for it. So let’s take a different look at this for a moment. Let’s say the kid gets a job, either at your prompting or not. Now the kid is at least earning some money and isn’t just asking you for it. Here are some possible things to do with that money:
Simply put it into a savings account, never to be touched (except in emergencies as dictated by you).
Cash the check and give the child all of it or part of it as you see fit.
Take that money and apply it to the Visa BUXX card in your own name.
Give the kid a credit card and use his paycheck to pay it off.
The first option doesn’t work for me because the kid’s not going to get the full lesson if the money’s never accessible to him. You’ll set up the account and tell him, “No, sorry, Johnny. We’re going to put that money away and save it.” Johnny ain’t gonna be pleased and will be more bitter than educated, IMO.
The second option isn’t a bad idea from Johnny’s standpoint. He earned money, and now he can spend it, end of story. However, you have no idea what he is spending the money on. To me, a cashed check is almost like money that never existed. Once that money is spent, all I have is the pay stub. If Johnny’s like most kids, he’ll put the pay stub somewhere and not even look at it again. And he doesn’t have to answer to anyone, either; he only needs you to cash it (and maybe he can even do this himself, right?).
The fourth option, of course, is the worst. Too many parents have learned the hard lesson of giving their kids a credit card only to find themselves swamped in debt the kids incurred.
To me, the third option is the best of all worlds, provided that the kid has generated this money himself in the first place. Plus, you have control over how much is on the thing. If your kid makes $100, you could easily give him $10 now and put the rest on the card, or put some in a savings account, or any number of combinations. This, of course, makes it much better than the credit card option. If he makes around the same amount of money with each pay, he’ll be able to budget. Yes, giving him the cash would accomplish this, but without any kind of tracking mechanism or paper trail, as it were.
Since you didn’t mention anything about the kid earning the money in the first place, I can only assume you meant for us to infer that through the means of ESP. However, I’m glad you agree with the idea.
It seems to me that you’re more pissed at the commercial than the actual product. Of course it’s more convenient to pay with the card than with cash! How do you pay for anything online? Cash? Plastic is generally more convenient; that’s the biggest reason why so many people have credit cards in the first place.
I’m not sure I follow your logic regarding the “appearance” of the card. If I reach into my pocket to give the clerk a $20 and get back my $18, the next time I reach in I’ll find $18. If I do the same with the card, I won’t find any more than $18 on that card. What does the physical appearance have to do with the value of the card?
To me, there is no difference between giving the clerk a $20 bill and using my debit card for $20. Either way, my account is less $20. There’s no trickery involved! I’m not fooling myself into thinking I’ve somehow spent less with the card.
Without backing it up in any way (this is the pit and not GD after all), I’d just like to say that I think that the notion that a kid should work to teach them the value of money is bullshit.
Childhood is short enough as it is. The kid’ll be working for 40 to 50 years. Let 'em make the most of the opportunities offered them to study and play in a way that they will never be able to do again.
Do you think that I valued money less because my parents gave it to me when I was a kid? Do you think that I never recognised how god-damned HARD they worked for that money? I did my best to make sure that I didn’t aske them for more than I really really needed, because I RESPECTED them as people.
Whilst my friends were skipping their homework to earn a couple of quid per hour at the local supermarket, I was studying like crazy. I know which approach paid off more in the long-term…
How are you defining a ‘kid’? If you mean someone who isn’t, say, in high school, I completely agree. As far as we know, we only get one chance to have a childhood, and I wouldn’t want the kid to waste his working all the time. However, if you mean teenagers, I’ll have to disagree. There is no substitute for work in teach fiscal responsibility.
With all due respect, you’re not other kids. Most kids - and I’m talking teenagers here - do not have that kind of ethic. I don’t know in what time period you grew up, and forgive me if you’re a teen now, but most kids nowadays simply don’t feel the way you do, IMO.
OK dan - different time, different place. Surburban Britain in the late 80s/early 90s (I’m age 24 now BTW) is not the same as the US in the 21st century. But the principle is still the same - if your kids don’t respect the money you give them then they are not respecting how hard you worked for it. And that means that they are not respecting you. I’m sorry if your youth has reached that state, but if you insist that it has then I guess I have no choice but to believe you.
I learned plenty about fiscal responsibility as a teen. And I did it WITHOUT having to work. I was too busy playing two instruments in three orchestras, learning jui-jitsu and ballet, acting, playing in cricket and football teams and above all studying. Not sure how I could have fitted the local supermarket into that lot.
How exactly is this VISA BUXX thing better than getting a proper checking account with an ATM card that also acts as a debit card? My checking account doesn’t charge me 5% every time I put money into it - in fact, it pays me interest.
Very true - if they don’t respect the money you give them, then whatcha gonna do? But I’m not talking about them respecting me or how hard I personally work; I’m saying they could earn respect for themselves, although that’s a little OT.
Sounds like you were damn busy as a youth! Good. One thing that seems to foster responsibility is activity, whether it’s recreational or employment-centered. Sounds like you did right well for yourself. Just saying most kids aren’t as well-rounded as all that, whether through their own apathy or the lack of incentive or push offered by their parents. Looks like you had no time for earning a paycheck. I’m referring to those kids who don’t have anything else going on - no extracurricular activities, no work - and who therefore just sit around the house, as it were. Those would be the kids who need to learn responsibility. By having activities like you had, you learned responsibility in your own way. And I sure can’t argue with that!
ENugent, I think it differs in that there is a very finite limit to the amount you can spend. Most - but surely not all - teens cannot get a checking account, so the only ATM card they could therefore use would be that of their parents. And what right-minded parents are gonna give their kids access to their (the parents’) checking account? Tooooo dangerous, if you ask me!
It’s a shame that more parents aren’t motivated to motivate, so to speak. Maybe fostering a motivational attitude in parents would do a lot to fix the problems in society*. But given the current state of play, I see the validity of what you say. I’ll bow out.
pan
[sub]*motivate them to motivate a motivation?[/sub]
I always knew Origato was a pea-brained fuck monkey, but this rather confirms it.
One point that no one mentioned is the simple fact that kids are stupid. When money is nothing more than pieces of paper that one’s parent doles out, a kid is much more likely to lose it, let alone use it stupidly. You cannot use this VISA card without a PIN. So isn’t the money a whole lot safer in plastic form? If the card gets lost, big deal! Just cancel it and get a new one reissued with a different PIN.
Sure, you don’t give them access to the account you pay the mortgage with, but most banks will set up an extra checking account for free (or at least cheap).
Since when can’t teenagers get a checking account? I had one from the time I started working at 15 or 16. I have to agree with ENugent. Why pay Visa a fee for what is essentially a debit card?
Okay, I am one of those lazy shiftless teenagers with my parents credit card. (MWAHAHAHAHAAA!) I’ve been added to my parents account since the second year of high school when I had a week long field trip to NYC. The initations speech went something like this, “This is a credit card. It has your name on it. It can buy a house with its credit limit. When the McD’s gets robbed and everyone else is dead, you use it to get home. As fast as possible. By any means you can. Safe. Got it? Now, when that doesn’t happen you don’t use it. Got it?”
From there my relationship with my parents plastic has been happy and sweet. If I buy it, I pay for it. Online purchases are such things.
What is beginning to burn me is that since I decided to get my own credit card I haven’t seen hide nor hair of those “sell me your soul” people. This has been months. So everyone who is seeing those “sign right here” pick me up one and mail it please…
They can’t get them if they don’t have a job, that’s all - far as I know. At least the way it used to be was that if a kid wanted a checking account, he or she needed either steady income or a parent to open it. That may have changed recently.
Now, if you’re a teen who has a checking account, that alone should teach you responsibility - this Visa BUXX thing would be unnecessary for you, because you’d have the debit card already. And it would be your own debit card, so it would be advantageous to have it over the Visa deal. If you are a teen and do not have a checking account - and cannot get one - then I maintain that the Visa BUXX deal, despite its $5 fee, is better than your parents allowing you to use their debit card (shudder).
Medea’s Child, good for you! I’m glad you’re using it responsibly - I never was able to, and that’s my fault. Bravo to you!
I’m sure this doesn’t apply everywhere, but here,to get a checking account that doesn’t charge a monthly fee, a per transaction fee and foreign ATM fees, you need to have a fairly large amount on deposit (at least a couple thousand, and in my bank $6000). Not like when I opened my first checking account- I just needed to have a savings account with at least $50 in it. By the time you’ve paid those fees ($6-9 month, $1.50 for foreign ATM,$1 for the banks own ATM) , the Visa fee is cheap.
Okay, first let me state up-front that I am not unbiased on this issue – I work for an electronic payments company. And teen payments are a big deal for us.
That being said, I think that VisaBuxx and similar products are a good idea.
Why?
Online shopping.
Most online stores accept credit cards but not debit cards.
And usually you can’t get a Visa debit card until you’re at least 18. That’s because Visa (the company) restricts its legal liability by requiring Visa credit-card users to be of legal age.
VisaBuxx and similar products enable persons under 18 to shop online using a credit-card analog.
Parents thus do not have to give their (possibly irresponsible) children their own, real-live credit-card or Visa-debit info. Instead, they can give the kids money using VisaBuxx or similar products. The kids then cannot abuse their parents’ good credit, and parents can limit how much money the kids get. Kinda like with an allowance.
These products are primarily targeted to kids under 18 who cannot obtain their own credit cards. Once kids are 18, they can get their own credit cards like the rest of the adult world. But VisaBuxx and similar products also have useful applications for students who aren’t yet prepared to go the credit-card route.
Credit cards and their equivalents are pretty much necessary nowadays.
Prepaid debit cards simply provide a way for teens to shop without the limitations inherent in using cash.
[sub]Shit, I sound like I’m in marketing. I swear I’m really not. Sorry.**
