# Visible tattoos - Are they as damaging as they sound?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 12, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696 "2011-07-12T00:55:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/221 "2011-07-18T22:07:57Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> We’re not talking about likely scenarios, because that’s not what you posited. You simply said, flat-out, that you wouldn’t hire someone with tattoos given the choice, even if it wouldn’t affect their performance (e.g., client interactions). If all you would have said was, “Our clients would never go for it,” we wouldn’t have had this discussion. Instead, you revealed yourself as one of the people who thinks it’s their entitlement to force everyone else to conform to their personal style.
>
> How would you feel about someone who said that, given the choice between a woman who’d never had an abortion and one who had, all things being equal, they’d pick the woman who hadn’t had the abortion, every time? After all, I’m sure we \*all \*know that abortions are \*totally \*a sign of poor judgment.
I believe you have me confused with **Cat Whisperer.**
As for the abortion thing…well, I’m at a loss as to how I would know if you’d had an abortion or not, unless you told me. Having an abortion may or may not be indicative of poor judgment, but mentioning it during a job interview is absolutely horrendous judgment. The only way I would hire that person would be if they were the _only_ qualified candidate.
---
### Author:  [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/222 "2011-07-18T22:14:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Yes, you would be in a position to hire me. And then fire me. Because I thought face tattoos were stupid. Karmic-justice guarantees that [this person](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/12/article-2013959-0CFB5D1E00000578-885_468x534.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013959/Burglary-suspect-Patrick-Brooks-F-K-YOU-tattoo-forehead-pictured.html&usg=__3pS-3uyM63nXRFI6OVxdra_mYB0=&h=534&w=468&sz=37&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=us1uGv4x5qHNRM:&tbnh=136&tbnw=119&ei=EKUkTrW3GMHiiAK0xMnuCQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dforehead%2Btattoo%2Bpsycho%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26biw%3D1858%26bih%3D995%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=175&vpy=221&dur=63&hovh=240&hovw=210&tx=93&ty=112&page=1&ndsp=71&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0&biw=1858&bih=995) will hand me my pink slip.
He would certainly be appropriate for the position of corporate hatchet-man. 😃
Anyway, that reminds me of a funny story: there was an punk fellow who shaved his head and tattooed “FUCK” across the top of his skull. Wowed all the punkettes.
Later, he grew his hair back, got a job as a banking clerk, and eventually, by dint of hard work, made it to bank manager.
Then middle age baldness set in. :eek:
Did our hero dispair? Wear a crappy hairpiece?
Not at all … as you all know, tatoo removal is difficult and painful, but you can always add - he just modified “FUCK” to “BUCK$”, and carried on. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/223 "2011-07-18T22:52:47Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> I love that \*\*Evil Economist \*\*keeps pulling up awesome strawman examples of the worst possible facial tattoos.
It’s really funny watching him try to strawman out of the fact his arguments are exactly identical in form to anti-miscegenation arguments. At least the last guy who made that mistake and got it pointed out had the good sense to just stop posting instead of getting more and more spittle-flecked.
---
### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/224 "2011-07-18T22:54:03Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Yes, you would be in a position to hire me. And then fire me.
If you’re ever looking for DBA/Systems Admin/IT work in Central PA, I may well be in a position to hire/fire you–I’m coming to this debate with a business card that says “Director of IT”
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/225 "2011-07-18T23:09:23Z")
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> It’s really funny watching him try to strawman out of the fact his arguments are exactly identical in form to anti-miscegenation arguments. At least the last guy who made that mistake and got it pointed out had the good sense to just stop posting instead of getting more and more spittle-flecked.
Yes, thinking that face tattoos are stupid is exactly like lynching black people. I’ve conceded already to the [jenius](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/jenius.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/272608/strange-but-true/jenius-is-our-misspelled-tattooed-mug-shot-of-the-day.html/&usg=__HyLozK-zQzoM2xDqbnDJx5KkUts=&h=282&w=400&sz=18&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=Rmc2uiYgE79EQM:&tbnh=155&tbnw=213&ei=-bwkTp7NL8e_gQf68dG-Cw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djenius%2Bface%2Btattoo%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D1085%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=361&page=1&ndsp=62&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=102&ty=92&biw=1920&bih=1085)of your brilliant and not at all insane argument. Now I’m going to go get a face tattoo and stop killing gay babies (if I can!).
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/226 "2011-07-18T23:11:20Z")
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> If you’re ever looking for DBA/Systems Admin/IT work in Central PA, I may well be in a position to hire/fire you–I’m coming to this debate with a business card that says “Director of IT”
I could use a job, and I’m willing to get a full-face butterfly tattooed on my head, so if you don’t hire me it’s because you hate mixed-race couples, you racist!
---
### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/227 "2011-07-18T23:20:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Yes, thinking that face tattoos are stupid is exactly like lynching black people.
Insisting that people make aesthetic choices that conform to social norms is exactly like insisting that people make aesthetic choices that conform to social norms.
Lynching was never mentioned, by the by. Hyperbole will not help your argument, although I honestly suspect the only reason you’re continuing is that you get some kind of kick out of posting the dumbest tattoos you can find (which I’ve stopped clicking on, so your work is wasted here, at least).
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/228 "2011-07-18T23:27:04Z")
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> Insisting that people make aesthetic choices that conform to social norms is exactly like insisting that people make aesthetic choices that conform to social norms.
>
> Lynching was never mentioned, by the by. Hyperbole will not help your argument, although I honestly suspect the only reason you’re continuing is that you get some kind of kick out of posting the dumbest tattoos you can find (which I’ve stopped clicking on, so your work is wasted here, at least).
I agree, you got me there. My aesthetic choice to eat mixed-race babies is exactly equivalent to your aesthetic choice to get a face tattoo, so don’t judge me, man.
Also, I would never link to[bad face tattoos](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/winkelman-face-tattoo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/260829/strange-but-true/david-jonathan-winkelman-is-tattoo-face-mugshot-of-the-day.html/&usg=__3WDXRnaRzwqoTyRcgVJtyjXsKJQ=&h=373&w=400&sz=17&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=DhZtiO1ktL87RM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=173&ei=-bwkTp7NL8e_gQf68dG-Cw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djenius%2Bface%2Btattoo%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D1085%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=296&page=1&ndsp=62&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:0&tx=120&ty=82&biw=1920&bih=1085); and your calling them bad is an aesthetic judgement that is exactly the same as miscegenation, you evil person.
---
### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/229 "2011-07-18T23:34:58Z")
This will be my last post in response to you. “Enjoy” your day.
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> I agree, you got me there. My aesthetic choice to eat mixed-race babies is exactly equivalent to your aesthetic choice to get a face tattoo, so don’t judge me, man.
Your refuge in screaming hyperbole continues to not help your case in the slightest.
> [@](#):
>
> Also, I would never link to[bad face tattoos](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/winkelman-face-tattoo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/260829/strange-but-true/david-jonathan-winkelman-is-tattoo-face-mugshot-of-the-day.html/&usg=__3WDXRnaRzwqoTyRcgVJtyjXsKJQ=&h=373&w=400&sz=17&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=DhZtiO1ktL87RM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=173&ei=-bwkTp7NL8e_gQf68dG-Cw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djenius%2Bface%2Btattoo%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D1085%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=296&page=1&ndsp=62&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:0&tx=120&ty=82&biw=1920&bih=1085); and your calling them bad is an aesthetic judgement that is exactly the same as miscegenation, you evil person.
Oh, I’m allowed to make personal aesthetic judgments all I want. I find 95% of tattoos ill-advised and ugly from an aesthetic standpoint.
I would still be a complete moron if I based any substantial decisions on that judgement. Accordingly I have several friends with tattoos, my wife has tattoos, 1/3+ of my co-workers have tattoos, and I would happily hire someone with a non-obscene tattoo regardless of its placement or visibility.
And I don’t even have to ridiculously misstate your claims to trounce you in an argument while I’m at it. 🆒
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/230 "2011-07-18T23:42:10Z")
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> This will be my last post in response to you. “Enjoy” your day.
>
> Your refuge in screaming hyperbole continues to not help your case in the slightest.
Yeah, this is all my fault for comparing face tattoos to forced abortions of mixed-race babies to begin with. That was me, wasn’t it?
> [@](#):
>
> Oh, I’m allowed to make personal aesthetic judgments all I want. I find 95% of tattoos ill-advised and ugly from an aesthetic standpoint.
>
> I would still be a complete moron if I based any substantial decisions on that judgement. Accordingly I have several friends with tattoos, my wife has tattoos, 1/3+ of my co-workers have tattoos, and I would happily hire someone with a non-obscene tattoo regardless of its placement or visibility.
Like me? I mean, I just got a face tattoo for that job you promised me.
And remind me, is it the kind of tattoos your wife has that we’re discussing here? Do her tattoos look anything like [this](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/jeremy-kyle4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anorak.co.uk/274047/tv/jeremy-kyle-target-gets-skull-tattoo-on-face.html/&usg=__7tcZi9wbsHXKlKws3IlKoGqXhmM=&h=361&w=466&sz=23&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=vcblFM3kO8yv-M:&tbnh=152&tbnw=190&ei=-bwkTp7NL8e_gQf68dG-Cw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djenius%2Bface%2Btattoo%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D1085%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=675&vpy=265&dur=97&hovh=198&hovw=255&tx=183&ty=107&page=1&ndsp=62&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0&biw=1920&bih=1085)?
> [@](#):
>
> And I don’t even have to ridiculously misstate your claims to trounce you in an argument while I’m at it. 🆒
Cool, looking forward to it.
---
### Author:  [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/231 "2011-07-19T00:01:31Z")
> [@pullin](#):
>
> Being a parent, I try to point out some associations/correlations for my kids while we’re out and about. […] I make no bones about mentioning the large difference in body art among 1) the unemployed homeless in front of the downtown library and, 2) the annual soiree of my workgroup (where AFAIK nobody is pulling down less than six figures).
>
> \*As to the OP’s question, I don’t know if it has a “devastating” effect on future earnings, but I certainly see a lot of \*\*anecdotal \*\*evidence to that effect. \*
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> This should be held up as a case study for anyone who needs to learn the difference between correlation and causation.
Please **SFG** , I’m _only_ pointing out a correlation, I never mentioned causation. I’m well aware of the difference. Also note I state quite clearly my observations are anecdotal. Unfortunately, we cannot demand a peer-reviewed double-blind study for every decision we have to make.. and in my experience, visible tattoos are much more likely to be found in the trailer park than in the boardroom (and I’ve spent time in both). I simply choose to pass on these observations to my kids, in hopes they’ll at least delay any modifications until firmly established in their careers. I’m sure you’ve noticed that we’re in a heavy recession, with quite likely a permanent shift in employment opportunities and living standards. I’m trying to launch my brood with every advantage I can give them. Skipping self-expression through body art is a small price to pay for a better chance at a steady income, imo.
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### Author:  [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/232 "2011-07-19T15:15:55Z")
> [@billfish678](#):
>
> And, IIRC, gay men being gay really aint a choice.
Being in a same-sex relationship is a choice. Just ask awesome people like Orson Scott Card, who constantly writes gay characters who give in to the urge to procreate, marry women, and settle down contented with lots of babies.
Heck, you could even say that your employees could be in same-sex relationships, as long as they made sure to keep it hidden from you. That seems more comparable. You’ll hire people who hide their tattoos under clothing and people who hide their same-sex spouses/partners/SOs/fuckbuddies. That sounds fair, right?
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Didn’t I date you once? I remember staring at a wall wondering when it would stop. Was that you?
The funniest thing you’ve ever posted here is the idea that you could get close enough to any woman to ask her out without setting off her creeperdar.
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> By the way, your aesthetic judgement of those people’s tattoos means you’re worse than a mixed-race-baby-killing gay person.
Okay, guys, fess up. Which one of you went around to a bunch of halfway homes for people with mental disabilities and passed out free internet access cards with the board URL on them? We’ve had way too many of these people lately.
> [@CrazyCatLady](#):
>
> I believe you have me confused with **Cat Whisperer.**
Ack, mea culpa. The worst part is your name was \*right there \*above what I typed. :smack:
> [@](#):
>
> As for the abortion thing…well, I’m at a loss as to how I would know if you’d had an abortion or not, unless you told me.
Let’s say there happened to be an abortion clinic across the street, and you recognized the woman from last week.
> [@pullin](#):
>
> Please **SFG** , I’m _only_ pointing out a correlation, I never mentioned causation. […] I simply choose to pass on these observations to my kids, in hopes they’ll at least delay any modifications until firmly established in their careers.
You realize that those two statements are contradictory, right? If you think that tattoos are \*correlated \*with unemployment but not _causative_, why would you bother to point them out?
---
### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/233 "2011-07-19T15:25:15Z")
Huh. I admit I wouldn’t hire a person with a face tattoo. I’m sure that does make me bigoted, but we all draw our lines somewhere, and I can live with the guilt of this one, I’m sure.
---
### Author:  [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/234 "2011-07-19T15:43:06Z")
Please. This conversation is beyond tedious. While I couldn’t give a half a shit if I tried about what someone inks on their body --and frankly, I’m quite surprised that we’re having a conversation over whether or not a tattoo hurts your job prospects in 2011; I thought by now the prevailing idea is that it _doesn’t_ so long as your tattoo is within reason-- this characterization of people who have _any_ tattoo regardless of location or content as non-comformist heroes who are somehow more desirable candidates gives me a bit of a chuckle and a furrowed brow.
I’m pretty sure that’s a run-on sentence. Sue me.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/235 "2011-07-19T16:37:09Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> The funniest thing you’ve ever posted here is the idea that you could get close enough to any woman to ask her out without setting off her creeperdar.
That’s probably because of my [face tattoo](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/mug-shot-metamorphosis?page=0). I tried explaining to those women at exhausting length that refusing to get close to me because of my face tattoo is exactly morally equivalent to not hiring aborted black fetuses, but they just look at me like I’m crazy.
---
### Author:  [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/236 "2011-07-19T16:37:45Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> Huh. I admit I wouldn’t hire a person with a face tattoo.
\*Any \*visible tattoo or just one on their face? The discussion has gotten pretty sidetracked by \*\*Evil Economist \*\*creepy hyperbole strawmen. And is the refusal to hire based on personal preference or because you think it will actually affect their ability to perform the job (e.g., a client would refuse to work with them)?
> [@MeanOldLady](#):
>
> Please. This conversation is beyond tedious.
A tedious conversation on the SDMB? Are you sure? I don’t think we usually have those ever.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/237 "2011-07-19T16:47:54Z")
Hey! Smoking Gun has a [tattoo section in their booking photo gallery](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/general/tattoos) (in all fairness, these people are probably all innocent and were only arrested because of institutionalized racism against the facially tattooed, similar to what mixed-race couples went through in the 1930’s).
Who’ll be the first to hire[this guy](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/general/tattoos/tattoos-180)?
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/238 "2011-07-19T16:48:50Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> \
> We’re not talking about likely scenarios, because that’s not what you posited. You simply said, flat-out, that you wouldn’t hire someone with tattoos given the choice, even if it wouldn’t affect their performance (e.g., client interactions). If all you would have said was, “Our clients would never go for it,” we wouldn’t have had this discussion. Instead, you revealed yourself as one of the people who thinks it’s their entitlement to force everyone else to conform to their personal style.\
> [@CrazyCatLady](#):
>
> I believe you have me confused with **Cat Whisperer.**
> \
Just for the record, I didn’t say that, either. What I said in my first post in this thread was
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#):
>
> \I don’t like tattoos, and if I was in a position to hire people, I would probably be prejudiced against someone with sleeves of tattoos\
You can’t just add things in that people haven’t said because you’re getting all worked up.
---
### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/239 "2011-07-19T16:56:55Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> \*Any \*visible tattoo or just one on their face? The discussion has gotten pretty sidetracked by \*\*Evil Economist \*\*creepy hyperbole strawmen. And is the refusal to hire based on personal preference or because you think it will actually affect their ability to perform the job (e.g., a client would refuse to work with them)?
Just any tattoo on their face. And it would be personal preference, I completely admit. Neither will I sit here and try to defend it being right or fair, but I can’t help it.
I am quite sure it won’t affect their ability to perform the job, but be aware that all of my life all of my jobs have had to deal with the public in one way or another. I suppose if I was hiring someone for a guaranteed non-public-job…I probably still wouldn’t hire someone with a facial tattoo, actually. Sorry.
I would not have a problem with someone who had an arm tattoo that showed. I wouldn’t ask them to keep it covered except maybe around clients. Just something about the face that causes trouble for me.
---
### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/240 "2011-07-19T17:08:07Z")
I hear you, **Anaamika** , and I don’t think that you’re being unreasonable.
As for you, **Cat Whisperer** , if it’s any consolation, I understood what you were saying as well.
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