### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/261 "2011-07-20T13:49:23Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#):
>
> Wait – what? I didn’t attack him, jeez.
Claiming that you didn’t attack me won’t take away the tears. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/262 "2011-07-20T13:57:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Causation comes only from your hypothesis, and statistics tests hypotheses, so you start with a reasonable hypothesis and use statistics to test it. If you start with the hypothesis that face tattoos are a sign of criminal behavior, then a statistical test showing a correlation between face tattoos and criminal behavior supports your hypothesis.
Bah, I would re-word this if not for the time limit. I would say causation is suggested by your model, rather than causation is generated from your hypothesis. Other changes too, but this is IMHO, so I won’t worry too much about the details.
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/263 "2011-07-20T14:06:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> You’re looking for Bayesian statistics: The probability that a person with a face tattoo [P(F)] is a criminal [P(C|F)] is equal to P(F|C)P(C)/[P(F|C)P(C)+P(F|~C)P(~C)]
Make that P(C|F) = [P(C)\*P(F|C)]/P(F)
And I’m done posting for a while
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/264 "2011-07-20T15:43:13Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> \
> I said that given a choice, you wouldn’t hire someone with a visible tattoo. I.e., if there were someone else equally qualified who didn’t have any tattoos that you could see, you would pick them every time. Was I wrong? Sorry if I phrased your explicitly stated position in a way that made you uncomfortable.
Yes, you were wrong. Are you having trouble seeing the word “probably” on your screen? 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/265 "2011-07-20T15:47:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Nice way to avoid the question, so let’s ask it again: [You’re home alone when this guy](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/general/tattoos/tattoos-157) shows up at your house dressed in a City Gas uniform. “Hello, I need to be let in to check the gas lines.” Do you ignore his appearance and let him in? Yes or no?
I don’t give a shit what the dude looks like. If someone needs access to my apartment whom I don’t expect or recognize, they had better provide ID \*and \*be happy to wait for me to call their alleged employer to verify their need to enter.
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> This is _not_ The BBQ Pit.
Whoops, I keep thinking the thread’s in the Pit. Mostly I’ve caught myself before actually posting, but apparently not that time. Sorry, **EE**.
> [@MeanOldLady](#):
>
> Wait – what? I didn’t attack him, jeez.
I dunno, maybe he thought you were implying \*\*EE \*\*was trolling.
---
### Author:  [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/266 "2011-07-20T15:49:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#):
>
> Yes, you were wrong. Are you having trouble seeing the word “probably” on your screen? 🙂
So you \*would \*hire someone with visible tattoos over someone who didn’t have them, if the candidates were equal in all other ways?
---
### Author:  [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/267 "2011-07-20T17:06:17Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> So you \*would \*hire someone with visible tattoos over someone who didn’t have them, if the candidates were equal in all other ways?
Good Christ on a pogo stick girl, you are like a dog with a bone. **Cat** doesn’t like tattoos. Fine, her choice
But really, if the candidates were identical twins, had attended the exact same schools, got the exact same grades, worked the exact same internships, and were identical in every way except one had an outfit on that I liked better, or both had tattoos but some I liked and some I didn’t, or one had a full facial tattoo that said ‘I rape kittens and puppies’ - I would choose the candidate that was more aesthetically pleasing to me. Who gives a crap if the public doesn’t see the person? _ **I** _ have to look at the person every day, and in a scenario where there are _NO OTHER DIFFERENCES_ I’m going to choose the person who I like looking at more because, hey, you have to choose somehow.
Of course, that scenario would never happen, so the point is moot. Further, if I recall **Cat’s** personal details, she generally chooses to work temp assignments so she will probably not be in a hiring position anyway, making the whole thing moot X 2.
Anyhow, I hope the OP actually got some useful information out of this.
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/268 "2011-07-20T17:11:29Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> I don’t give a shit what the dude looks like. If someone needs access to my apartment whom I don’t expect or recognize, they had better provide ID \*and \*be happy to wait for me to call their alleged employer to verify their need to enter.
He has an ID from the company (although he doesn’t have the tattoo in the picture on the ID) and when you call his boss, he confirms that his job is to be in your neighborhood checking for reported gas leaks, which gives him a legitimate reason to be in your apartment. So, do you let him in?
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/269 "2011-07-20T17:14:30Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> So you \*would \*hire someone with visible tattoos over someone who didn’t have them, if the candidates were equal in all other ways?
They can’t be equal if one of them has a visible tattoo, unless the other one has made some other equivalently bad life choice. What is the equivalent bad life choice the other guy made and does it come up during the interview?
---
### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/270 "2011-07-20T17:19:23Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Nice way to avoid the question, so let’s ask it again: [You’re home alone when this guy](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/general/tattoos/tattoos-157) shows up at your house dressed in a City Gas uniform. “Hello, I need to be let in to check the gas lines.” Do you ignore his appearance and let him in? Yes or no?
My provider is Gas Company, Inc., so not only would I not let him in, I would immediately place a call to Local Police Department.
---
### Author:  [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/271 "2011-07-20T17:19:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> He has an ID from the company (although he doesn’t have the tattoo in the picture on the ID) and when you call his boss, he confirms that his job is to be in your neighborhood checking for reported gas leaks, which gives him a legitimate reason to be in your apartment. So, do you let him in?
Why, under those circumstances, wouldn’t I? I happen to agree that getting a facial tattoo is kinda dumb, but all you’re doing with this post is proving SWG’s point that your dislike of facial tattoos impairs your ability to perceive people with them _rationally_, let alone fairly.
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/272 "2011-07-20T17:37:49Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> My provider is Gas Company, Inc., so not only would I not let him in, I would immediately place a call to Local Police Department.
Probably a good idea.
> [@DianaG](#):
>
> Why, under those circumstances, wouldn’t I? I happen to agree that getting a facial tattoo is kinda dumb, but all you’re doing with this post is proving SWG’s point that your dislike of facial tattoos impairs your ability to perceive people with them _rationally_, let alone fairly.
Unfortunately, although he does work for City Gas, [this man has recently suffered a psychotic break](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/general/tattoos/tattoos-157), (which should have been obvious to anyone looking at him) and although he seems normal for a few minutes, something in your house throws him into a psychotic rage.
If he hadn’t been working away from the office, the manager would have pulled him from duty the moment he saw the new tattoo, because his manager isn’t delusional enough to think that normal people do that shit to themselves.
Later, your friends and family gather to ask themselves “what was **DianaG** thinking? How could she let someone like that in her house? Wasn’t it obvious from just looking at him that he was dangerous?”
In good news, the jury awards you a settlement, and managers check-in with their employees on a daily basis in the future.
[Personally, I’m not a woman at home alone, but I still would have sent that creepy son-of-a-bitch packing. I would have called the office and told them to send someone else, and if that wasn’t possible I would have called the police and had them escort him when he came in,](http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Gavin-Becker/dp/0440226198) but then given the choice between losing a message-board argument and ending up as a head in someone’s freezer, I’ll take the former.
---
### Author:  [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/273 "2011-07-20T17:45:21Z")
Well, that’s certainly a sizeable pile of bullshit you have there, sir.
As it happens, I’m a woman often home alone, but if I were looking for something to hit an assailant with, I’d want a book with a little more heft than that one.
---
### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/274 "2011-07-20T17:57:57Z")
To me tattoos are like a variation on freedom of speech. Sure, its your freedom and right to do so. But don’t get all butt hurt when others think either the actual message or the means of delivery is a “WTF?” moment that causes them to wonder about you (and probably not in a good way).
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/275 "2011-07-20T17:58:30Z")
> [@DianaG](#):
>
> As it happens, I’m a woman often home alone, but if I were looking for something to hit an assailant with, I’d want a book with a little more heft than that one.
If you’re looking for something to hit someone with I suggest an axe. If you’re willing to let people like that in your house, you should hurry up and get one.
---
### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/276 "2011-07-20T18:02:57Z")
Or an even SCARIER tattoo.
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### Author:  [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/277 "2011-07-20T18:03:16Z")
No, I pay attention when I feel fear. I just don’t have your particular paranoia. Thanks for the thought, though.
---
### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/278 "2011-07-20T18:13:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#):
>
> No, I pay attention when I feel fear. I just don’t have your particular paranoia. Thanks for the thought, though.
At this point he’s pretty much been grinding that axe so hard that what he’s got left could only charitably be called a “handle”.
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/279 "2011-07-20T18:27:38Z")
> [@DianaG](#):
>
> No, I pay attention when I feel fear. I just don’t have your particular paranoia. Thanks for the thought, though.
You call it paranoia, I call it considered judgement. Given that the picture I used for the character in my little role-playing experiment was a mugshot for a convicted felon, I’m going to go ahead and say that my judgement is plenty good here, and yours is…well, ask the woman he assaulted to get that felony conviction how good your judgement is.
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> At this point he’s pretty much been grinding that axe so hard that what he’s got left could only charitably be called a “handle”.
What’s funny is that you’ve drawn the exact same line in the sand as me, except that you’re proud of yourself for drawing your line two inches further out. You said yourself that you drew the line at obscene tattoos, which is a difference of degree, not a difference of kind. In fact, my opinion is more justifiable than yours because yours is entirely subjective.
If **Shot From Guns** wasn’t looking so hard for an ally here, she’d be accusing \*you \*of being no different from someone who wouldn’t hire black people.
---
### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/visible-tattoos-are-they-as-damaging-as-they-sound/588696/280 "2011-07-20T18:27:49Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Later, your friends and family gather to ask themselves “what was **DianaG** thinking? How could she let someone like that in her house? Wasn’t it obvious from just looking at him that he was dangerous?”
>
> In good news, the jury awards you a settlement, and managers check-in with their employees on a daily basis in the future.
Good idea! I’ll avoid scary black men and rednecks and anybody who looks even remotely dangerous to me in the future.
Wait, no, I can’t just do that, can I? I have to live in this world.
Look, I really see an enormous amount of difference between
Face tattoo=poor judgement
Face tattoo=PSYCHOTIC KILLER READY TO RAPE ME AND MURDER ME THIS SECOND
There is a short story in the Stand about a woman who has been afraid of rapists all her life. When the end of the world comes, she pulls out this old moldy pistol. A drunk guy comes to her door, cheerful as all fuck at seeing someone else still alive. She pulls the pistol, fires, it misfires and blows up, killing her.
That is what you sound like.
FTR, I do my level best to never be home alone when the repair guy comes, but if I have to be, then I have to be. The absence or presence of a tattoo does not make him more less likely to snap and kill me. I mean, bwuh? 😕
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