# Vive Charlie Hebro! French mag publishes naked Muhammad cartoons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160 "2012-09-19T12:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/21 "2012-09-19T15:33:32Z")
This is like not provoking a bully because it would be dangerous, which just keeps the bully as the one in power. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/22 "2012-09-19T15:40:52Z")
Anyone got a link to the cartoons themselves? I’m wondering if it might not be like that Innocence of Muslims trailer that was (to this non-Muslim) too dumb to be offensive. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/23 "2012-09-19T15:42:38Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This is just what the crazy Muslim protesters need, a vigorous fuck you instead of sniveling apologies for free speech (which, alas, the French government instantly resorted to in response.) EXACTLY! As history shows, people in the Middle East tend to shy away from any sort of conflict. All we need to do is metaphorically poke the protesters in the eye, and they’ll back down. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/24 "2012-09-19T15:43:40Z")
I’m conflicted. On the one hand, I absolutely support free speech, even juvenile speech and I think that the world is too quick to cater to what is a mob. On the other hand, my wife is in Afghanistan right now and at this very minute is getting updates every half hour on any potential violence as a result of these images. My stomach is in knots. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/25 "2012-09-19T15:46:54Z")
Suppose the French magazine published a cartoon explicitly instructing you to kill the next person you see. If you kill the next person you see whose fault is it, yours or the magazines? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/26 "2012-09-19T15:47:49Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Pretty sure you just got wooshed by low flying sarcasm. Quite probably but as these people got fire-bombed in Paris last time out (pretty front line and negating of cheap sarcasm) I wasn’t sure what the poster was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/27 "2012-09-19T16:10:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > EXACTLY! As history shows, people in the Middle East tend to shy away from any sort of conflict. All we need to do is metaphorically poke the protesters in the eye, and they’ll back down. I don’t think this is a “vigorous fuck you” or even a stern stance on freedom of speech…its just unnecessarily provocative. And its my belief that what people in the ME respect is power, a show of force. The brave thing to do would be to be the one that mans the gun turret, mowing down those violent protestors with some hot fucking lead. They will scatter. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/28 "2012-09-19T16:11:43Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Is it a fuck you to Muslim extremists? Of course. But, it’s a well deserved one. It’s also a “fuck you” to approximately one billion Muslims worldwide who aren’t rioting, burning down embassies, or shooting diplomats. But hey, who gives a shit about those assholes, right? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/29 "2012-09-19T16:13:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Anyone got a link to the cartoons themselves? I’m wondering if it might not be like that Innocence of Muslims trailer that was (to this non-Muslim) too dumb to be offensive. I think [this](http://postedeveille.typepad.com/.a/6a01156fb0b420970c017c31f5d237970b-pi) is it. The caption “Et mes fesses? Tu les aimes, mes fesses?” (And my butt, do you like my butt?) was evidently originally spoken by Brigitte Bardot in the film _Le Mépris_. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/30 "2012-09-19T16:22:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s also a “fuck you” to approximately one billion Muslims worldwide who aren’t rioting, burning down embassies, or shooting diplomats. But hey, who gives a shit about those assholes, right? So Islam is the only religion immune to parody, simply because they don’t like it? Nobody wants their icons to be insulted, but it is going to happen. But only one religion _regularly_ kicks up a shitstorm whenever it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/31 "2012-09-19T16:28:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I think [this](http://postedeveille.typepad.com/.a/6a01156fb0b420970c017c31f5d237970b-pi) is it. > > The caption “Et mes fesses? Tu les aimes, mes fesses?” (And my butt, do you like my butt?) was evidently originally spoken by Brigitte Bardot in the film _Le Mépris_. Thanks. My French is way too rusty to puzzle out the rest, but I suspect I got as much as necessary to see why Muslims would get offended. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/32 "2012-09-19T16:28:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s also a “fuck you” to approximately one billion Muslims worldwide who aren’t rioting, burning down embassies, or shooting diplomats. But hey, who gives a shit about those assholes, right? Then it’s about time they realized that the world is not bound to revere their prophet nor even respect him. A Mencken quote comes to mind: “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/33 "2012-09-19T16:31:42Z")
I think I’ll go spread a big American flag on the sidewalk and take a massive shit in the middle of it. Then I’ll set it on fire. I’m quite sure that my American compatriots will stand back approving of my forceful expression of the right to free speech. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/34 "2012-09-19T16:33:21Z")
I think these cartoon shenanigans are actually less reprehensible than the stupidly bigoted _Innocence of Muslims_ movie, although they’re still a pretty dickish thing to do. The cartoonist in this case is not trying to pretend that his work is anything but a deliberately offensive and gratuitous attempt to annoy Muslims. He’s openly proclaiming “Hey look at me, I’m using my freedom of speech to be an asshole!” Not even the most idiotically bigoted and credulous Islamophobe could possibly believe that this cartoonist is attempting any kind of accurate portrayal of Prophet Muhammad. The filmmakers, on the other hand, really wanted people to believe the stupid things about Muhammad and Islam that they portrayed in their movie. I think that kind of deliberate promulgation of bigotry is worse than this kind of frankly mischievous dick-waggling, even though I’m not particularly impressed with the dick-waggling either. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/35 "2012-09-19T16:34:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Then it’s about time they realized that the world is not bound to revere their prophet nor even respect him. A Mencken quote comes to mind: > > “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.” Sure, Mencken makes a great point. If only the publishers of that French rag, the assholes who made the video that kicked off the latest round of bullshit, and your own estimable self, had as much sense as he did. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/36 "2012-09-19T16:34:54Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > What is the use of having a right if you’re too frightened to exercise it? You are my hero today. This is exactly the point. Perhaps time to trot out this tried-but-true chestnut: [QUOTE=Benjamin Franklin] They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. [/QUOTE] If you value free speech, you have to keep pushing back against those who demand exceptions for themselves. Some Muslims seem to believe that no-one anywhere in the world has the right to “defame” the “prophet” Mohammed, and that if they do so they (or their proxies) deserve death. We have to disabuse them of this notion, or give up the idea of free speech altogether. Yes, it is scary to have to fight and possibly die for your rights. I won’t pretend I’m not afraid. But it gets easier when I consider the alternatives. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/37 "2012-09-19T16:42:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think I’ll go spread a big American flag on the sidewalk and take a massive shit in the middle of it. Then I’ll set it on fire. I’m quite sure that my American compatriots will stand back approving of my forceful expression of the right to free speech. Right? I would. The right to free speech is specifically about the right to freely express offensive opinions. You don’t need constitutional protection to say, “Oh what lovey flag! And so shit-free!” Every damn publication on the planet should run the Onion’s cartoon right alongside the Charlie Whozits cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/38 "2012-09-19T16:43:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A threat of mass violence, in other words? Jesus fucking christ you’re a worthless piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/39 "2012-09-19T16:48:59Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think I’ll go spread a big American flag on the sidewalk and take a massive shit in the middle of it. Then I’ll set it on fire. I’m quite sure that my American compatriots will stand back approving of my forceful expression of the right to free speech. Right? You’d be cursed at, and you might get punched. You’re unlikely to be beheaded, though, and your stunt probably wouldn’t incite riots across the country. Other than that, it’s a spot-on analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/40 "2012-09-19T16:58:07Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think I’ll go spread a big American flag on the sidewalk and take a massive shit in the middle of it. Then I’ll set it on fire. I’m quite sure that my American compatriots will stand back approving of my forceful expression of the right to free speech. Right? I can only speak for myself, but I certainly support your right to do such a thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160.md?page=3)