# Vive Charlie Hebro! French mag publishes naked Muhammad cartoons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160 "2012-09-19T12:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/141 "2012-09-20T22:12:19Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > _That’s_ your defense? I didn’t give you a laundry list of everything I happen to think is bad (in one post, no less). This horrible failure on my part enables you to read my mind and state for the record that I think violence is kosher. Sorry, I wasn’t aware that the “free speech” you claim to love came with strings attached, namely that failure to address every possible aspect of a situation in a single post leaves one open to the charge of defending violence. I think it’s a rather fair defense in that I didn’t think I needed to address issues that simply weren’t in your post. The fact that you chose to highlight the actions of the cartoonists and not the disproportionate response of the loonies may not indicate approval, but I felt it showed a rather odd sense of priority. The usage of the word “kosher” was meant as a shorthand way of representing that. > [@](#): > > Okay, I’ll play that game. You didn’t express any sympathy at all for the concerns I have at the moment, much less for madmonk28, whose wife’s level of danger is greater than my family’s. This horrible failure on your part means that you think we’ll get exactly what we deserve if we lose someone we love as a result of this situation. (I don’t really believe that, by the way, I’m just using your own tactic to illustrate that it’s not a particularly impressive one.) A reasonable reaction, but even that doesn’t work since I expressed a negative opinion of the violent protesters and you did not. I could simply reply that you would rather blame the cartoonists than the people responsible. > [@](#): > > FTR, I condemn violence of every kind for every reason, in any place, at any time. This includes the antics of the mouth-breathing assholes at the US Embassy in Jakarta and it sure as hell includes the people who killed J. Christopher Stevens. I’ll be sure to make a note of this to prevent future overreactions on your part. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/142 "2012-09-20T23:54:42Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’ll be sure to make a note of this to prevent future overreactions on your part. Thank you. The notes that you keep regarding my posts have a profound impact on everything I say or do. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/143 "2012-09-21T01:06:26Z")
If I said something and someone died as a result, I would feel sorrow and guilt. I wouldn’t be responsible (unless it was some Harry Potter death spell thing), but I would feel responsible. The more foreseeable the death, the more responsible I would feel. We don’t need to condemn rights to condemn behavior. We don’t need to support behavior to support rights. These crowds are ignorant, vicious, and cruel. Their violence is disgusting and unreasonable. I would hope these things would go without saying (though I see in this thread we are required to state the obvious). ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/144 "2012-09-21T01:34:05Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I’m disappointed in the nunber of cookies needed for posters to the thread.l I’m disappointed in the nunber of cookies needed for mods posting to the thread ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/145 "2012-09-21T01:44:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If we reduce this all down to the cold reality of _realpolitik_, is there anything more stupid than actively supporting your enemy’s recruitment program? If your enemy is backwards and impotent, then bending your society to be more like his would be even stupider. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/146 "2012-09-21T01:45:18Z")
How much would various governments pay me to not publish cartoons of Mohammad? ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/147 "2012-09-21T02:57:39Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > How much would various governments pay me to not publish cartoons of Mohammad? By the same token, I suppose being a rat bastard asshole terrorist, I could just go ahead and publish whatever the fuck I feel like, including doctored versions of whatever is already out there, targeted at the locals, according the current attack schedule. Ya think? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/148 "2012-09-21T02:59:36Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > I’ll go along with the unsophisticated part, but that’s about it. > > When are people going to stop beating the dead horse about why the Arabs have so much to be angy about? Decades of regional political and economic strife under various different circumstances punctuated by never-ending periods of warfighting would piss anybody off after awhile, I suppose. So what? > > It does not take the edge off terrorism. > > Not one bit, for me anyhow. There are essentially two ways to stop a man from being your enemy: change his mind, or kill him. I much prefer the former, if that makes me a weakling umbrella toting apologist appeaser, make the most of it. Its not always easy to get people to listen to reason,but it gets tougher if you have just poked them in the eye with a stick. No, we can’t make stuff like that illegal, it goes against our Prime Directive. But that is not a defense of their actions, it is merely the reason we can’t do anything much about it. All we can do is loudly disapprove, it isn’t enough, but that doesn’t excuse us from doing it. The Middle East has at least a solid century of being fucked over by the West. Not unreasonably, they resent it. _Tres duh, mais non_? Our most fanatical enemies are trying to convince them that its all about Islam, that its a war of religion. The truth is, of course, it was just business. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/149 "2012-09-21T03:00:50Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > By the same token, I suppose being a rat bastard asshole terrorist, I could just go ahead and publish whatever the fuck I feel like, including doctored versions of whatever is already out there, targeted at the locals, according the current attack schedule. > > Ya think? Of course you can, my little dimwitted terrorist. What is in doubt is your ability to do it profitably. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/150 "2012-09-21T03:05:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Of course you can, my little dimwit. What is in doubt is your ability to do it profitably. So sorry to hear your cognitive wit is dim. Apparently you don’t understand the prophet of death. Or subtle sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/151 "2012-09-21T03:07:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There are essentially two ways to stop a man from being your enemy: change his mind, or kill him. There is a third way: smoke a bowl with the man. You’ll still fundamentally, violently and irreconcilably disagree, but… aren’t Funyuns AWESOME ?! ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/152 "2012-09-21T03:29:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The truth is, of course, it was just business. That’s where the whole religious angle fails miserably. The business plan is a non-starter. Funding the cause with poppies doesn’t buy much in the way of effective security. What’s a raghead supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/153 "2012-09-21T03:34:15Z")
Too bad they didn’t take out a patent on algebra. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/154 "2012-09-21T08:59:55Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > in protecting free speech vs. its affect on other people, even among western nations. In western Europe, apparently, speech is not as free as here. Roddy This is true. There are some laws on speech aimed at provoking hatred and violence in the UK. In my opinion they are too broad and too vague and therefore open to abuse by authorities. The USA places limitations on speech that incites imminent lawless action also. We also have the European Convention on Human Rights as protection of free speech rights and an independent judiciary that fights back against flagrant abuse of hate speech laws. However we have abolished the blasphemy laws amidst the most appalling screaming and shouting from the churches. However - due to the chilling effect of violence - Islam still gets a much easier ride in my opinion. I know as a sometime writer I would not dare publish some perfectly legal and not that offensive things. One of our TV channels recently had to cancel a private screening of a [Tom Holland documentary on Islam](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/11/channel-4-cancels-islam-untold-story-tom-holland_n_1873551.html) (questioning aspects of the official story) because of security fears (but not the TV screening) even though the historian presenting it was visibly tip-toeing and measuring what he said. Chilling effect again. And this [extends to within Islam and hinders reform.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7718715.stm) > [@](#): > > Governments across Europe must do more to safeguard freedom of speech for Muslim reformers who face threats from extremists, a think tank has warned. > > The UK-based Centre for Social Cohesion highlighted the cases of 27 writers, including Sir Salman Rushdie, activists, politicians and artists. > > The centre said they had suffered violence and intimidation for criticising Islam or seeking reform. > > It said governments had a duty to ensure free speech for all citizens. > > The report - Victims of Intimidation: Freedom of Speech within Europe’s Muslim Communities - said official failure to offer victims the protection they needed had left “significant numbers” of Muslims unable to express themselves. Western governments have to confront, not placate, just like now in the UK it is more willing to deal with honor killings and forced marriage. Otherwise nothing will change. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/155 "2012-09-21T10:02:14Z")
[Pakistan Government declares ‘Day of Love’ for The Prophet.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19670527) > [@](#): > > In Pakistan, a government-declared “special day of love” for the Prophet Muhammad has seen violent clashes and at least one death in the northern city of Peshawar, and clashes elsewhere. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/156 "2012-09-21T13:02:12Z")
Yeah, I’m sure we’ll see lots of expressions of love in Pakistan today. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/157 "2012-09-21T13:55:06Z")
> [@Roderick Femm](#): > > Exactly, plus eleventy. Unless you’re a [pacifist Jew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States), I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/158 "2012-09-21T14:12:31Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > [Pakistan Government declares ‘Day of Love’ for The Prophet.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19670527) > > :smack: It can’t be coincidence that it follows Talk Like a Pirate Day so closely. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/159 "2012-09-21T14:23:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It can’t be coincidence that it follows Talk Like a Pirate Day so closely. Mother’s Day must be fun. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/160 "2012-09-21T14:29:27Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > That’s where the whole religious angle fails miserably. The business plan is a non-starter. Funding the cause with poppies doesn’t buy much in the way of effective security. What’s a raghead supposed to do? Raghead? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160.md?page=9)