# Vive Charlie Hebro! French mag publishes naked Muhammad cartoons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160 "2012-09-19T12:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/161 "2012-09-21T16:47:25Z")
Don’t mind kwimby. He can’t help himself. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/162 "2012-09-21T17:37:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think I’ll go spread a big American flag on the sidewalk and take a massive shit in the middle of it. Then I’ll set it on fire. I’m quite sure that my American compatriots will stand back approving of my forceful expression of the right to free speech. Right? This American would simply warn you that burning shit is a really awful smell, and you may want to limit your activity to shitting OR burning. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/163 "2012-09-21T18:42:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > On the other hand, my wife is in Afghanistan right now and at this very minute is getting updates every half hour on any potential violence as a result of these images. My stomach is in knots. I spent the better part of 15 years sending my husband off to unknown locations, for various amounts of time during the cold war. He didn’t get the crap on his [chest](http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t465/BlauLotos/People%20and%20Places/a51833c6.jpg) for playing nice with others. I will admit that I am glad he is retired, but that didn’t stop me from losing a [friend](http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73406) recently. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think I’ll go spread a big American flag on the sidewalk and take a massive shit in the middle of it. Then I’ll set it on fire. I’m quite sure that my American compatriots will stand back approving of my forceful expression of the right to free speech. Right? As long as it isn’t my flag, my sidewalk and I don’t have to watch or clean it up, I’ll be happy to hand over a roll of bog paper. > [@Enkel](#): > > I think the French got it right. We (the US) should close our embassies, completely withdraw and stop all aid/funding to any country where these mobs are rioting. Obviously they don’t want us there and we could re-direct the money and man hours toward a natural gas infrastructure in the US. How muchh oil is in our strategic reserves, and how much do we spend in the middle east on oil in the average year? How long can Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC middle eastern countries go without the US purchases furnishing their income? How much other US money do they get in the average year, and how long would it take us to make all of our misguided christian sprog funds to pull out, and all the assorted other organizations that provide what we could then be calling succor to the enemy? [I would be willing to bet that Peace Corps has been subtlly pulling personnel out for the past few months already] > [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Fundamentalist Muslim strategy step 1: Get the infidels out of the country. > > Fundamentalist Muslim strategy step 2: Get the lovers of liberty out of the country or beat them until they shut up. > > Step 3: Celebrate victory. > > You have to play the long game with societies suffering from the infestation of fundamentalist religious sects. We can freak out just like they do over the products of idiots, assholes, and shit-stirrers claiming they promote free speech or we can play the long game, stay engaged and promote the elements of their societies that desire freedom and peace. No, we need to pull all funding and aid to force the respective governments and nonviolent populations to force the militant idiots to stop being jackasses, kill them or jail them. That will never happen as long as they feel they will continue getting aid and funding from the US. > [@Miller](#): > > I’m also sick of the hypocrisy of people like (picking one example from this thread) **Enkel** , who want to take the actions of a portion of a country’s population, and hold the whole of that nation responsible for it. No, they _are_ responsible for letting it continue. If we had a bunch of violent politically based assholes _cough_ several black kids ended up with military or police escorts to get them into school, we mobilized the FBI because of a few dead voters rights organizers _cough_ we would deal with making sure they were not screwing around with the rest of the population. Hate crimes are illegal in quite a few countries around the world. If the countries in the eastern parts of the world can’t deal with violence, then perhaps we should withdraw ourselves and out support until they decide they need us to buy their goods and services. If that means I need to convert the farm to home generated methane and heating with wood, I can deal with it. I can augment our solar stuff. > [@kwimby](#): > > I’ll go along with the unsophisticated part, but that’s about it. > > When are people going to stop beating the dead horse about why the Arabs have so much to be angy about? Decades of regional political and economic strife under various different circumstances punctuated by never-ending periods of warfighting would piss anybody off after awhile, I suppose. So what? > > It does not take the edge off terrorism. > > Not one bit, for me anyhow. They started it, with 700 or so years of trying to invade europe. They also have been happily killing each other off over a very minor difference generated at the death of Mohammad. The US has been mucking around in the middle east for almost no time at all, under 100 years. > [@elucidator](#): > > The Middle East has at least a solid century of being fucked over by the West. Not unreasonably, they resent it. _Tres duh, mais non_? Our most fanatical enemies are trying to convince them that its all about Islam, that its a war of religion. The truth is, of course, it was just business. And by using business we can fight back. If we stop any sort of money and aid flat, no more buying their oil, their touristy tchatchkes, their agricultural products, no shipping over humanitarian aid, no loans or grants, throw all their students out. No movies, magazines, newspapers, books. Nothing. Embargo them like Cuba. Wonder how much they get off the US between grants, loans, purchases and aid packages… ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/164 "2012-09-21T19:22:44Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > They started it, with 700 or so years of trying to invade europe. They also have been happily killing each other off over a very minor difference generated at the death of Mohammad. The US has been mucking around in the middle east for almost no time at all, under 100 years. You are so fucking ignorant it’s painful to read. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/165 "2012-09-21T20:04:58Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Unless you’re a [pacifist Jew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States), I suppose. I don’t quite see the parallel. What I wrote was: [QUOTE=Roderick Femm] “If your feelings are hurt, that’s your problem.” Exactly, plus eleventy. [/QUOTE] The case you cite certainly doesn’t have anything to do with hurt feelings or insulted dignity. It is about a limitation on freedom of speech, in a situation of which one may certainly debate the merits. That is, speaking against the draft during a declared war may or may not be defensible. But it is in no way a parallel to the situation we are discussing. Unless perhaps you would care to elucidate further. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/166 "2012-09-21T22:42:04Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > They started it, with 700 or so years of trying to invade europe. The US has been mucking around in the middle east for almost no time at all, under 100 years. _counts on fingers_ Ummm, 14th century, that’s past the Crusades conveniently enough. I assume you’d be talking about the Ottoman Empire, then ? Of course, while they were busy trying to defend their possessions, crack Istanbul and later Vienna ; Europeans were busy trying and more often than not succeeding in invading, um… everyfuckwhere else ? The New World of course, but also India, Asia, Africa, Australia & the Dutch Indies (which happened to not be Dutch at the time), a couple stabs at Russia… Oh, them aggressive, conquest happy Muslims ! _shake fist_ But of course, if you merely misspoke and meant “trying to invade Europe \*since \*700”, then it would still be my duty to remind you that Europeans started that too, with Romans, Greeks and (much) later Normans conquering every coastline of the Mediterranean and of course the Levant while they were at it. Not that “they started it !” means a shit in the first place, naturally. What are you, fucking five years old ?! But even so, it’s important to get one’s facts straight. > [@](#): > > They also have been happily killing each other off over a very minor difference generated at the death of Mohammad. Ha ! Yeah ! Not like us Europeans, who’ve instead been killing each other off over _no difference at all_ besides a lack of respect for the authority of a man in a funny hat and expecting to be allowed to hold Mass in something other than a dead language. Now those would be proper, solid reasons to be murdering each other by the hundred thousands. Silly Muslims ! > [@](#): > > The US has been mucking around in the middle east for almost no time at all, under 100 years. 1801, to be precise. Expeditionary war against the Barbary Corsairs. If you’re really a Navy wife, you oughta know what prompted the founding of the Navy in the first place. Obviously, few people burning American flags today remember that one either - they’re more concerned by how badly the US (and the West in general) have been thoroughly reaming them over oil in living memory. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/167 "2012-09-21T23:21:05Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > No, we need to pull all funding and aid to force the respective governments and nonviolent populations to force the militant idiots to stop being jackasses, kill them or jail them. That will never happen as long as they feel they will continue getting aid and funding from the US. So get the nonviolent parts of the population to kill the militants? GENIUS!! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/168 "2012-09-22T01:08:23Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > That’s where the whole religious angle fails miserably. The business plan is a non-starter. Funding the cause with poppies doesn’t buy much in the way of effective security. What’s a raghead supposed to do? “raghead”? Are you under the impression that the people of Pakistan or Afghanistan are Arabs or even Middle Easterners? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/169 "2012-09-22T02:06:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > 1801, to be precise. Expeditionary war against the Barbary Corsairs. If you’re really a Navy wife, you oughta know what prompted the founding of the Navy in the first place. > . 😕 US navy began in 1774, technically it predates the country. Jyrenes started the same year as well. It was 1794 that it started mucking about with the Barbary Pirates [who normally predated on Europe and only hit the occasional American trading vessel. When the US split off from Britain it lost the protection of the British navy.] I even know 2 whole verses to the Navy Hymn … rather useless information, but I have sat through more than enough change of command ceremonies to put the most raving insomniac to sleep ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/170 "2012-09-22T04:10:12Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > 😕 US navy began in 1774, technically it predates the country. That’s the \*Continental \*Navy. It was disbanded and (mostly) disarmed after the Independence - what was left of it anyway. Its remaining ships were either sold or relegated to anti-smuggling duties. It would eventually become the US Coast Guard. The actual combat force called the \*US \*Navy and which really had, y’know, _war ships_ (as opposed to re-purposed civilian ones and race-built cutters) was established and commissioned via the Naval Act of 1794, in specific reaction to Barbary corsair raids in the Atlantic which proved a little too much for the revenuers to handle. It would also prove useful in letting the French stop being dicks, but that’s another story 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/171 "2012-09-22T04:10:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Silly Muslims ! Yah well, I think overall the gripe is that they _are_ silly, even given that they are not alone in that. But one can’t always _say_ that without all hell breaking loose. What I propose is that- even if you don’t really respect the beliefs- you try to respect the people and avoid doing things that reliably piss them off. Seriously, why start a riot, even if it is a riot of people you don’t like? People get hurt in riots. Stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/172 "2012-09-22T04:46:26Z")
For people like **Enkel** , **aruvqan** and any other member of the short-sighted take-my-ball-and-go-home school of diplomacy…this is why you stay engaged: [Libyans storm Ansar Al-Shariah compound in backlash after attack on US Consulate](http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/21/libyans-storm-ansar-al-sharia-compound-in-backlash-attack-on-us-consulate/) > [@](#): > > After taking over the Ansar compound, protesters then drove to attack the Benghazi headquarters of another Islamist militia, Rafallah Sahati. The militiamen opened fire on the protesters, who were largely unarmed. At least 20 were wounded, and there were unconfirmed witness reports of three protesters killed. > [@](#): > > Earlier in the day, some 30,000 people filled a broad boulevard as they marched along a lake in central Benghazi on Friday to the gates of the headquarters of Ansar Al-Shariah. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/173 "2012-09-22T05:24:35Z")
I would like to make a point that doesn’t appear to be discussed in this thread. Right now, it’s a time of unrest in the Muslim world. Transitions between one system and another are usually dangerous times. Like the Terror after the French Revolution. It happens… No Iron Hand to control the extremists, and an unsteady system in place that will need time to settle. Now, on the one hand, while I’m all for shitting on any religion, this may be the very worst (or the very best if your intention is precisely to stir things up) time to do that. Like standing up to a bully when he’s drunk. On the other, I suspect that similar provocations have been going unnoticed through the years, but now the extremists are looking for any excuse to riot, so now the provocations are noticed. Like how South Park had actually used Mohammed’s image in an episode years ago, but nobody cared, in that Superfriends parody episode, but after the dutch cartoon they threatened to bring him back and it was chaos. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/174 "2012-09-22T07:46:06Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I would. The right to free speech is specifically about the right to freely express offensive opinions. No, it fucking doesn’t. Why does everyone keep repeating this lie? Freedom of speech is specifically about being able to contradict those in power without fear of repercussion. This exists so that democracy can function, as, otherwise, those in power can just outlaw any attempt to protest their actions and inspire people to vote them out. It’s a protection so that you can’t be accused of being an asshole just for sharing an unpopular opinion. It is not a protection so that you can be an asshole and run and hide behind the law. That’s a consequence, and one of the tradeoffs. Stop mistaking the side effects with the purpose. The thing people never seem to think about in these situations is that being an intentional asshole never brings people together. It always makes enemies. There is no way that this sort of thing is ever going to convince Muslims that they shouldn’t take images of their prophet so seriously, any more than pissing on a Jesus statue is why Christians don’t care about such profanity. We don’t care because we realized that most people who disagree with us are not assholes, and that those who do this are on the fringe. Stop pushing for it to become mainstream, as that would justify their beliefs. Stop acting like intentionally making the bully mad ever makes him stop being a bully, instead of causing him to wail on you even more. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/175 "2012-09-22T14:05:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > “raghead”? Oh sorry. I meant sand rat bastard terrorist asshole. Wherever they live and breed. Not the farmers. Just the sand rat bastard terrorist assholes encouraging them and running the (cough) business. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/176 "2012-09-22T14:56:47Z")
Oh, that’s all right, you’ve pretty much clarified things already. Its a fine American tradition, actually, hating people you don’t know for reasons you can’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/177 "2012-09-22T16:01:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, that’s all right, you’ve pretty much clarified things already. Its a fine American tradition, actually, hating people you don’t know for reasons you can’t understand. Cartman: “Screw you, hippie!” /Cartman ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/178 "2012-09-22T16:09:21Z")
> [@OtisCampbellWasRight](#): > > It really makes you wonder just exactly what the hell this person is trying to accomplish by putting such inflammatory material out there. If nothing more than stirring up trouble, then mission accomplished. > > WRT free speech, this is tantamount to yelling “FIRE” in a theatre. Or maybe the goal is to desensitize them, to undo their training. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/179 "2012-09-22T21:32:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, that’s all right, you’ve pretty much clarified things already. Its a fine American tradition, actually, hating people you don’t know for reasons you can’t understand. Don’t forget kiling them - that’s the important part! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160/180 "2012-09-23T00:21:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s the \*Continental \*Navy. It was disbanded and (mostly) disarmed after the Independence - what was left of it anyway. Its remaining ships were either sold or relegated to anti-smuggling duties. It would eventually become the US Coast Guard. > > The actual combat force called the \*US \*Navy and which really had, y’know, _war ships_ (as opposed to re-purposed civilian ones and race-built cutters) was established and commissioned via the Naval Act of 1794, in specific reaction to Barbary corsair raids in the Atlantic which proved a little too much for the revenuers to handle. > It would also prove useful in letting the French stop being dicks, but that’s another story 🙂 And 1794 is not 1801. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vive-charlie-hebro-french-mag-publishes-naked-muhammad-cartoons/635160.md?page=10)