# Vocal classification of popular singers -- possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 4, 2001, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865 "2001-12-04T17:48:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/21 "2001-12-06T00:09:41Z")
maybe it would help to think of people who sing both classically and in pop situations. the only person i can think of like that would be sarah brightman, who does mostly classical/crossover stuff now and is considered a soprano, but there are several examples of her pop stuff around, especially early in her career. that might give you an idea of what a soprano singing pop stuff would sound like. ---
**Author:** ![VeraGemini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9bcb4/32.png) [@VeraGemini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VeraGemini)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/22 "2001-12-06T00:53:30Z")
Fun thread. I thought I was the only one that played “spot the register”. I can think of a few more: Soprano: Pat Benatar, Ann Wilson Alto: Debbie Harry, Johnette Napolitano (Concrete Blonde), Alison Moyet (Almost a baritone, she is), Janis Joplin Tenor: Robert Plant, Robin Zander Baritone: Rod Stewart, Steven Tyler Bass: Andrew Eldridge (Sisters of Mercy), Peter Steele (Type O Negative), Eric Burdon The comment about popular music favoring male singers with higher voices got me thinking about the heavy metal wailing style that was biggest in the 80s. Some of those guys hit some pretty high notes, but the ones who were regarded as the best singers (Ronnie James Dio, Rob Halford, Geoff Tate, for example) were actually baritones or basses who could maintain power and resonance outside their natural range. ---
**Author:** ![Enchantress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@Enchantress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enchantress)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/23 "2001-12-06T03:13:06Z")
Kate Bush is a good example of soprano and also Loreena McKennitt. ---
**Author:** ![bagkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bagkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagkitty)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/24 "2001-12-06T04:00:38Z")
What’s the technical term for sounding like you have had a cold, wet, slimy salmon shoved into your bodice (think Maria Carey, Whitney Houston… all the so-called divas who indulge themselves in high-end near screaming and warbling)? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/25 "2001-12-06T15:08:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bagkitty \* > \*\*What’s the technical term for sounding like you have had a cold, wet, slimy salmon shoved into your bodice (think Maria Carey, Whitney Houston… all the so-called divas who indulge themselves in high-end near screaming and warbling)? \*\* Good question. **Aschrott** above calls it “whistle register”, though that doesn’t seem to be a technical term. **Eonwe** , my brain froze up when I gave you the singer’s name who Art Garfunkel reminded me of. I meant Timothy B. Schmit of the Eagles (esp. on _I Can’t Tell You Why_). Lovely, clear singin on that track, and on some of his earlier work with Poco. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/26 "2001-12-06T15:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aschrott \* > \*\*This thread made me think of Wayne Newton, too. Anybody who doesn’t know him invariably thinks he’s a woman when they first hear his recordings. Surely he’s his own vocal category! \*\* Wayne Newton sings that high? Memory on him is fuzzy … he didn’t sound that high in _Vegas Vacation_. If so, he’s probablt singing in the countertenor range (roughly the same as alto, but for men). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/27 "2001-12-06T15:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enchantress \* > \*\*Kate Bush is a good example of soprano and also Loreena > McKennitt. \*\* McKennit is a great example. Her soprano range is most famously obvious on _Mummer’s Dance_. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/28 "2001-12-06T15:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by VeraGemini \* > **Alto: Alison Moyet (Almost a baritone, she is)** Wait a minute – is that HER voice leading on Yaz’ _Situation_ and not Vincent Clarke’s? ---
**Author:** ![aschrott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@aschrott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aschrott)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/29 "2001-12-06T20:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Wayne Newton sings that high? Memory on him is fuzzy … he didn’t sound that high in Vegas Vacation. > > If so, he’s probablt singing in the countertenor range (roughly the same as alto, but for men). I don’t know his stuff well either, but I was specifically thinking of his “Danke Schoen.” Have a listen to it if you can find a sample on the web – pretty freaky, and definitely not falsetto, at least to my trained ear. Every time I hear it I think, “Who is that woman?” and then I remember that it’s him. ---
**Author:** ![aschrott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@aschrott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aschrott)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/30 "2001-12-06T21:05:10Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*\* quote: > > ## Originally posted by bagkitty What’s the technical term for sounding like you have had a cold, wet, slimy salmon shoved into your bodice (think Maria Carey, Whitney Houston… all the so-called divas who indulge themselves in high-end near screaming and warbling)? > > Good question. Aschrott above calls it “whistle register”, though that doesn’t seem to be a technical term.\*\* Actually, that _is_ the technical term, or as close to one as there is. It is also sometimes called the “Flute” or “Flageolet” (French for “little flute”) register. Mariah Carey’s ealy stuff definitely makes use of it, but I’ve never heard Whitney Houston do it. It is a _very_ high register, much higher than most classically trained sopranos ever sing. Many women have no access to it whatsoever, and people debate whether or not it even exists for many women at all. In fact, the whole subject of vocal register (in terms of function in the voice, not vocal classifications by type) is very hotly debated among scientists and voice teachers. Some people will tell you there is no such thing as the flute register. I think that the available science supports it though. If you’re interested in a readable source on the physiology and function of the singing voice, I recommend Barbara M. Doscher’s _The Functional Unity of the Singing Voice_. > [@](#): > > **yes, I read that someplace – she also has a 6-octave range, which explains why she sometimes sounds like a soprano** This kind of thing always perplexes me. 6 octaves is a ludicrous idea. Think about it… If I sing my very lowest note, which is usually low C two octaves below middle C (probably the lowest bass note you’ve heard out of a choir), and then manage to whip off a tenor’s high C (highly unlikely ;), but it is usually the highest note you’ll hear a man sing without falsetto), that is only 3 octaves in distance. It includes 4 different transpositions (versions) of the note C, but still the actual compass is only 3 octaves. That’s still only _ **half** _ of what is claimed above. Women in general have wider vocal ranges than men do, but still! 3 octaves is a big range. 4 is getting ridiculous. 5 is almost out of the question. And I believe 6 is truly impossible. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/31 "2001-12-06T21:16:28Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by bordelond \* **Something that just struck me – do truly lousy “singers” allow classification this way? Where do you put Fred Durst or Kid Rock (hack! gag!)?** AAAAACK!!! I’ll admit that it’s somewhat difficult to classify either, as they scream/rap/whatever as opposed to _really_ singing. But I’ll wager that both are baritone, in that neither of them, to my knowledge, has a very high range… BTW, I agree that Art Garfunkel is an excellent example of a tenor. I’d classify Paul Simon as a countertenor/baritone, as his voice isn’t as high as Garfunkel’s. Also – although Julie Andrews’ character claimed herself a mezzo in **Victor Victoria** , in reality she is an alto…that is, if she could still sing. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/32 "2001-12-06T21:41:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > > **Eonwe** , my brain froze up when I gave you the singer’s name who Art Garfunkel reminded me of. I meant Timothy B. Schmit of the Eagles (esp. on _I Can’t Tell You Why_). Lovely, clear singin on that track, and on some of his earlier work with Poco. Hm, I don’t know which Eagle that is (the only one I really know by name is Don Henley), but I assume you mean the high one. 🙂 Yeah, good pick. As a group the Eagles have a great sounding harmony, and some of their high notes are great (song in mind, One of These Nights). Oh, another idea. Don’t know any of the band members’ names, but some of the guys who sing in the group Boston, I’d probably call some of them Tenors for sure. (jeez, you don’t go into work for a day, and you fall behind in conversation here). **ashcrott** C to a C. Wow, that’s impressive. I’ve got to agree that a 6 octave range sounds pretty ridiculous. Is there any actual documentation of her range? I wonder? If she could sing as low as you she still could sing 1 octave above what I would ever imagine anyone singing, and I can’t think of any female I’ve heard who could get two Cs below middle C. It’s all hype if ya ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/33 "2001-12-06T22:05:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aschrott \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > **yes, I read that someplace – she also has a 6-octave range, which explains why she sometimes sounds like a soprano** > > This kind of thing always perplexes me. 6 octaves is a ludicrous idea. Think about it… > \*\* Snopes has covered this: [http://www.snopes2.com/music/artists/carey.htm](http://www.snopes2.com/music/artists/carey.htm) They estimate Carey’s range as perhaps four octaves, or four-and-some-change. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/34 "2001-12-06T22:12:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aschrott \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > **yes, I read that someplace – she also has a 6-octave range, which explains why she sometimes sounds like a soprano** > > This kind of thing always perplexes me. 6 octaves is a ludicrous idea. Think about it… > \*\* Snopes has covered this: [http://www.snopes2.com/music/artists/carey.htm](http://www.snopes2.com/music/artists/carey.htm) They estimate Carey’s range as perhaps four octaves, or four-and-some-change. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/35 "2001-12-06T22:26:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > **Oh, another idea. Don’t know any of the band members’ names, but some of the guys who sing in the group Boston, I’d probably call some of them Tenors for sure.** That’s mainly Boston lead singer/keyboardist Tom Scholz you’re hearing. He overdubs his voice a lot on Boston’s studio work. **Kiz** – isn’t countertenor a higher-pitched range than tenor, rather than a lower pitch? **Aschrott** – _that’s_ Wayne Newton’s voice?!?!? I always thought that was some old version of _Danke Schoen_ that Newton later covered. However, Newton’s recording of the song is earlier (1963) than any other version I can turn up. Bandleader Bert Kampferte, who wrote _Danke Schoen_, didn’t record it himself until 1965. ---
**Author:** ![aschrott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@aschrott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aschrott)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2001, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865/36 "2001-12-07T03:48:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\* > **Aschrott** – _that’s_ Wayne Newton’s voice?!?!? I always thought that was some old version of _Danke Schoen_ that Newton later covered. However, Newton’s recording of the song is earlier (1963) than any other version I can turn up. Bandleader Bert Kampferte, who wrote _Danke Schoen_, didn’t record it himself until 1965. \*\* Yep - that’s him. Pretty weird, huh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-classification-of-popular-singers-possible/96865.md?page=1)