# Vocal Fry- Can we please make it against the law? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 3, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677 "2012-03-03T21:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/41 "2012-03-05T17:09:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If we’re gonna make anything against the law, I’d love to make frivolous judgment of other folks’ linguistic and vocal patterns against the law. It invariably comes across as a status-fight to me, folks saying, “Me, I’m so secure in who I am that I don’t need to do those things that those insecure people do, see how secure I am? I mock them!” Blech. You may be right, and yet somehow, I can’t help it – vocal fry is just like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It’s like a visceral reaction I have. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/42 "2012-03-05T17:14:14Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > You may be right, and yet somehow, I can’t help it – vocal fry is just **like fingernails on a chalkboard** to me. It’s like a visceral reaction I have. Ab-so-freakin’-lutely. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/43 "2012-03-05T20:09:32Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > You may be right, and yet somehow, I can’t help it – vocal fry is just like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It’s like a visceral reaction I have. Hmm…I’m still skeptical. There’s a certain aspect of our culture in which people form their identity in a Princess-and-the-Pea fashion, in which they take pride in being irritated by things. Fingernails on a chalkboard is a pretty universal response. This response to vocal fry? Maybe it’s similar, but the fact that it’s something young women get snarked at for, along with the pseudopsychological evaluations of why the young women are doing it, makes me think it’s a Princess-and-the-Pea situation, not a nails-on-a-chalkboard situation. I could, of course, be totally wrong, in which case I’m guilty of exactly what I think y’all are guilty of. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/44 "2012-03-05T20:11:56Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Is it that sort of low, strained voice that I think of as “valley girl talk?” If so, I hate it. Hate hate hate it. Sure sounds like it to me. When was that EVER attractive? ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/45 "2012-03-05T21:45:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hmm…I’m still skeptical. There’s a certain aspect of our culture in which people form their identity in a Princess-and-the-Pea fashion, in which they take pride in being irritated by things. Fingernails on a chalkboard is a pretty universal response. This response to vocal fry? Maybe it’s similar, but the fact that it’s something young women get snarked at for, along with the pseudopsychological evaluations of why the young women are doing it, makes me think it’s a Princess-and-the-Pea situation, not a nails-on-a-chalkboard situation. > > I could, of course, be totally wrong, in which case I’m guilty of exactly what I think y’all are guilty of. 🙂 No, I think this is a complex area. There are certain things that grate on me, and sometimes when I get called on it, I find it surprisingly hard to articulate _why_ they grate on me. Is it a snobbishness that operates at such a deep level that I’m not even aware of it? And to make things more complex, where’s the line between snobbishness and plain personal taste? Clearly it’s human nature to like certain things and dislike others. If I dislike Wonder bread, is it because I’m an elitist or is it just that I prefer more texture? Or both? Not giving any real answers here… just meandering. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/46 "2012-03-05T22:27:48Z")
For me, it’s not what the vocal affectation means or why girls do it or whether it’s a status thing or whatever… it’s the \*\*sound \*\*itself. Like the Kit-Kat commercial where everyone is crunching. As soon as it comes on, I hit the mute button. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/47 "2012-03-06T11:28:56Z")
Unfortunately, I do this. For me it has nothing to do with imitating others and everything to do with being an inhibited and shy person with low self-esteem who sort of… wants to swallow everything I say because I’m afraid of being heard. I judge every word out of my mouth, and sometimes if I notice I’m talking for too long a time, I start kinda shutting down and swallowing the words (that’s really the only way I can describe it) as if to apologize for speaking. As in that “extreme” video mentioned above, it’s definitely bad for the throat, and my vocal teacher back in college desperately tried to teach me to speak properly, so that my throat would get less scratchy and sore, and instead would better conduct the air (and voice, obviously) through the throat. The funny thing is that because of this habit, my speaking voice sounds nothing like my singing voice, which is lyric soprano. Here’s an example. It’s kind of a long podcast (I do one every month) and usually I start out with a more upbeat, clear voice–which I do purposely because I’m always telling myself, “DON’T SWALLOW YOUR WORDS THIS TIME!” but about ten minutes in it creeps back in. - [Speaking voice](http://epiguide.tumblr.com/post/12995527681/epicast-001-pilot) (I’m the girl; you can hear me trying to start properly but ending up vocal frying all in my introductory sentences! I get better in later podcasts but still, ugh.) - [Singing voice](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrQkkx-yzQ) (admittedly, 25 years younger, but my speaking voice was just as low then–lower, in fact! I used to be afraid I’d be cast in male roles because I sounded so butch.) ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/48 "2012-06-21T19:09:07Z")
(Resurrecting an old thread) Last week, I visited the Statue of Liberty and I almost started laughing when I heard one of the women speaking on the audio tour. “The Statue of Libertehhhh was dedicated in ehhhteen-ehhhhty-sehhhhhx…” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/49 "2012-06-21T19:22:06Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Curiously, nobody complained about this twenty years ago when singers such as Kurt Cobain were doing this (even to excess, in songs such as Lounge Act and Moist Vagina), but now that Britney Spears is doing it, suddenly it’s a horrible epidemic? That’s because it doesn’t sound so bad (1) in singing and (2) when its really low. We’re talking about about women who use it in the tenor range while talking. You can just hear how bad it sounds. It also doesn’t help that speaking in that register is associated with Valley Girl speech where it is used for condescension purposes, as in that exaggerated video. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/50 "2012-06-21T20:11:08Z")
> [@choie](#): > > - [Speaking voice](http://epiguide.tumblr.com/post/12995527681/epicast-001-pilot) (I’m the girl; you can hear me trying to start properly but ending up vocal frying all in my introductory sentences! I get better in later podcasts but still, ugh.) > > - [Singing voice](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrQkkx-yzQ) (admittedly, 25 years younger, but my speaking voice was just as low then–lower, in fact! I used to be afraid I’d be cast in male roles because I sounded so butch.) You’re doing it in the natural way, not the annoying way. And your voice is low enough that it’s nowhere near as grating. Also, many sopranos don’t really have a high voice–they just have a really wide range. EDIT: I say that, but you sound like a mezzo, or even high contralto. You’re having to belt out a high F. You sound like you have the same range as my vocal instructor in college, and she called herself a mezzo. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/51 "2012-06-22T01:48:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m more irritated by the opposite effect - women talking in a falsetto voice. That japanese “little girl” squeek and giggle … argh. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/52 "2012-06-22T02:03:58Z")
Still not sure what vocal fry is. Valley talk I’m familiar with. What annoys me a bit is so many youngish people on TV sound like they have nasal congestion or something. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/53 "2012-06-22T02:09:05Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Still not sure what vocal fry is. This is a [demonstration](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY). It’s the creaky sound at the very bottom of the speaker’s range. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/54 "2012-06-22T02:12:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is a [demonstration](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY). It’s the creaky sound at the very bottom of the speaker’s range. I listened to that. It’s a funny video, but to me it just sounds like she’s valley girl talking. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/55 "2012-06-22T02:31:23Z")
I don’t understand the backlash. I don’t understand the issue. I don’t see any problem in the speech pattern. I don’t know why anyone in the known universe would complain about this. I need to go to sleep before growing an aneurism. Good night. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/56 "2012-06-22T02:48:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I listened to that. It’s a funny video, but to me it just sounds like she’s valley girl talking. Listen to the points at which her voice goes the lowest and starts creaking. Vocal fry is also called “creaky voice.” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/57 "2012-06-22T03:31:34Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t understand the backlash. > > I don’t understand the issue. > > I don’t see any problem in the speech pattern. > > I don’t know why anyone in the known universe would complain about this. > > I need to go to sleep before growing an aneurism. > > Good night. It actually causes damage to the vocal chords, which are rapidly vibrating when this affectation is used. The human voice is not designed to do this on a sustained basis. It’s same sort of thing for a male singer who screams lyrics. You can do this safely if you’ve been trained for it; otherwise, you’re going to fuck up your voice in short order. A damaged larynx is just asking for much worse problems. ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/58 "2012-06-22T05:54:07Z")
From one of the links upthread, quoting one of the authors of a study that looked at it’s use among students: “Anecdotally, vocal fry is judged to be annoying by those who are not as young as the college students we tested.” Get off of my lawn! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/59 "2012-06-22T12:21:49Z")
Since reading this thread, I’ve noticed that a lot of men do this too, but I guess it’s not as noticeable since their vocal registers are already low. They’ll speak smoothly for a bit and then dip into a gravelly voice and then come back out into their regular voice. So is it just damaging when women do it, or should there be a cross-gender PSA campaign? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677/60 "2012-06-22T13:03:45Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t understand the backlash. > > I don’t understand the issue. > > I don’t see any problem in the speech pattern. > > I don’t know why anyone in the known universe would complain about this. I pretty much felt the same way, but when I heard that young woman croaking about the Statue of Liberty it definitely lacked a certain gravitas. The same would apply for an uptalker? who keeps raising her voice? and makes it sound like she’s always asking a question? or like, a someone who like, uses the word “like” every, like, five seconds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vocal-fry-can-we-please-make-it-against-the-law/614677.md?page=4)