# Voice recording from 1860 found **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046 "2008-03-28T14:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/1 "2008-03-28T14:28:11Z")
This is really cool – there’s an MP3 of the recording posted as well. From [here](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23835160/?GT1=43001): > [@](#): > > U.S. audio historians have discovered and played back a French inventor’s historic 1860 recording of a folk song — the oldest-known audio recording — made 17 years before Thomas Edison invented the phonograph. > > “It’s magic,” audio historian David Giovannoni said on Thursday. “It’s like a ghost singing to you.” [Here’s the recording (mp3)](http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/1860-Scott-Au-Clair-de-la-Lune.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![Wheeljack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@Wheeljack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheeljack)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/2 "2008-03-28T14:37:00Z")
That is really very cool. I think what’s so great about this is that the guy who recorded it had no way to play it back, and probably died a long time ago not realizing that one day the whole world would be able to hear what he had done. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/3 "2008-03-28T14:39:47Z")
It’s the teacher, from _Peanuts_, right? ETA: OK, it is really, seriously cool though - especially (as **Wheeljack** says) as it was recorded without any known way to play it back. I’ve occasionally read about people hoping to be able to extract audio from indentations on thrown clay pots - picked up and transcribed when a hard tool was used to mark them while they were spinning - which is a great idea, but probably not possible. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/4 "2008-03-28T14:41:13Z")
I heard this story on NPR yesterday. For those who don’t want to click the link: > [@](#): > > It was made on April 9, 1860, by Parisian inventor Edouard-Leon Scott de Martinville on a device called the phonautograph that scratched sound waves onto a sheet of paper blackened by the smoke of an oil lamp, Giovannoni said. So it was a visual representation of the sound that was not intended to be played back. (Nor was it possible to do.) > [@](#): > > “What Scott was trying to do was to write down some sort of image of the sound so that he could study it visually. That was his only intent,” Giovannoni said. Very interesting. It makes me wonder if Edison saw that sound could be recorded, and then figured out a way to play it back (by etching the waves and reversing the process); or if he came up with his idea independently. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/5 "2008-03-28T15:28:19Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Very interesting. It makes me wonder if Edison saw that sound could be recorded, and then figured out a way to play it back (by etching the waves and reversing the process); or if he came up with his idea independently. [/QUOTE] The telephone’s very public demonstrations in 1876 at the Centennial Exposiion in Philadelphia probably was a more direct inspiration. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/6 "2008-03-28T16:26:10Z")
The father of television, [John Logie Baird](http://www.tvdawn.com/tvhist1.htm), also made the first video recordings years before the invention of magnetic tape. Baird recorded his 30 line TV signal on a 78 RPM record but he was never able to figure out a way to play this signal back and display it. Some of these records were discovered by an engineer a few years back, and he digitized the discs and figured out how to recover the video information and [display it using a computer](http://www.tvdawn.com/recordng.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/7 "2008-03-28T16:38:28Z")
That is seriously cool. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/8 "2008-03-28T17:01:56Z")
OK, this is fantastic. Additional to the story is that they played the recording on BBC Radio 4 this morning while I was getting ready for work. Charlotte Green, extremely professional national broadcaster, played the recording and then just _lost it_ giggling, live, to millions of listeners, while trying to announce someone’s death. Very inappropriate, but hilarious. [Read the story](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7318173.stm) (and listen to her losing the plot via the “Green’s laughter” link under her photo). It was a brilliant start to my day. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/9 "2008-03-28T17:06:27Z")
It reminds me of that guy a couple of years ago who wrote some software that takes an image of an LP and extracts the sound from it. The example was some classical piece, Vivaldi I think. You could just about make out the tune. Can’t find the link to it right now, dammit… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/10 "2008-03-28T17:07:00Z")
Calling this “the oldest known audio recording” stretches the definition of audio recording quite a bit. What was created could not be played back without 21st Century Equipment. This is about as amazing as finding a Mozart score and realizing that you could get a symphony orchestra to play it. Maybe, but the score is not a recording. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/11 "2008-03-28T17:14:26Z")
I would say that it is a recording, because the squiggles on the paper were directly caused by the original sound. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/12 "2008-03-28T17:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Calling this “the oldest known audio recording” stretches the definition of audio recording quite a bit. What was created could not be played back without 21st Century Equipment. This is about as amazing as finding a Mozart score and realizing that you could get a symphony orchestra to play it. Maybe, but the score is not a recording. [/QUOTE] I’m going to disagree. A score is a symbolic representation of the music. These recordings are analog representations. That is, they are the actual movements of the stylus, which vibrated with the actual movements of the air. EDIT: See what I get for going away before posting? I get beaten! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/13 "2008-03-28T17:34:06Z")
Needs more cowbell. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/14 "2008-03-28T17:57:19Z")
I just listened to that, and that is creepy! But cool. Maybe the creepiness stems from it sounding like a ghost in a haunted house. No way I could have identified it as French. What was that first Thomas Edison recording? Mary had a a little lamb? Is that extant? ---
**Author:** ![Ceejaytee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ceejaytee/32/2956_2.png) [@Ceejaytee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ceejaytee)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/15 "2008-03-28T18:18:41Z")
You can hear Mary Had a Little Lamb [here](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10137/10137-m/10137-m-001.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/16 "2008-03-28T18:49:53Z")
The phonautograph isn’t all that obscure. James Burke talks about it (and Edison’s familiarity with it) in his books and series. Edison, of course WAS trying to make a replayable system. That these earlier records are now playable is fantastic, but doesn’t detract from Edison’s accomplishment. (Burke, by the way, claims that Edison’s inspiration was the _recording telegraph_, which made audible sounds when you played back the recorded telegraph message.) As for the story about recordings from pots, the guy who made that claim also claimed to have actually reproduced the sound of a “noisy potters wheel” from the grooves of an ancient wheel-generated pot. It’s open to question. He also claimed to have picked up sound recordings from brushstrokes in hardened oil paint, but it wasn’t ancient. Here’s the abstract of the article: > [@](#): > > Acoustic recordings from antiquity > Woodbridge, R.G., III > This paper appears in: Proceedings of the IEEE > Publication Date: Aug. 1969 > Volume: 57, Issue: 8 > On page(s): 1465- 1466 > ISSN: 0018-9219 > Posted online: 2005-06-28 14:46:17.0 > > Abstract > Pioneering experiments establishing the principles of recalling ancient sounds from antiquity are reported. > **[Acoustic recordings from antiquity](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1449244/;jsessionid=8FC7261A2106175CA8DAA6D540418EBF?arnumber=1449244)** > > Pioneering experiments establishing the principles of recalling ancient sounds from antiquity are reported. Artrhur C. Clarke reported it in an article later reprinted in **The View from Serendip**. “Daedalus” suggested a similar idea (independently, I think) in his Nature column. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/17 "2008-03-28T18:55:21Z")
The New York Times has an article about this [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/arts/27soun.html?ex=1364356800&en=f98597c0206e2879&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink). The funny thing is the inventor’s indignation at Edison’s work. The Times article said, “In a self-published memoir in 1878, he railed against Edison for ‘appropriating’ his methods and misconstruing the purpose of recording technology. The goal, Scott argued, was not sound reproduction, but ‘writing speech, which is what the word phonograph means.’” Also, the same people responsible for this discovery also published a CD of nineteenth-century recordings of dirty jokes, called [Actionable Offenses](http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=90), which could be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/18 "2008-03-28T19:11:53Z")
Wow, I’ve learned a ton from this thread! Thanks for the links to additional resources and research. This is really cools stuff. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/19 "2008-03-28T20:42:31Z")
This is amazing. To think, when this was recorded, among other things, Lincoln was not yet President, and the southern states had not seceded from the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046/20 "2008-03-28T20:49:33Z")
[QUOTE=cochrane] This is amazing. To think, when this was recorded, among other things, Lincoln was not yet President, and the southern states had not seceded from the Union. [/QUOTE] And John McCain was barely out of school. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voice-recording-from-1860-found/443046.md?page=2)