# Voicing limited and qualified agreement with a bigoted stereotype **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561 "2025-07-31T21:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/361 "2025-08-20T23:07:41Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > For example, it’s fine for a Jewish org to note and celebrate the number of Nobel prizes won by Jewish people. Yes, because; Jewish orgs are not trying to confirming an offensive stereotype. Jewish orgs would note and celebrate any number of Nobel prizes won by Jewish people because they’re celebrating the accomplishments of . . . wait for it . . . this will shock you, so sit down . . . JEWS!!! ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/362 "2025-08-20T23:49:59Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > And this sort of thing pre-dates the Great Awokening. That merely amped it up it from denying scientific facts to denying ordinary ones that everyone is familiar with. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Also, “woke mind virus”? Come on. 🙄 🙄 🙄 Indeed ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/363 "2025-08-21T00:51:28Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > I’d love to hear what some of these taboo deep truths — that we all know are true but deny it because we’ve been infected by the woke mind virus — really are. > > What, exactly, aren’t we (woke libs) being realists about? Alright, to put my hand in the bear trap: an uncomfortable truth, as put by another poster better than I could— > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > My opinion that there is indeed a recalcitrant Black underclass due in part to its own unique self-imposed dysfunction is something I’ve heard expressed often by Black friends and coworkers. Now, what point would there be in bringing this up in a discussion? Simply that the continuing unequal outcomes for African-Americans is an undesirable situation which people have wanted to correct for decades. But how one expects to solve this problem ultimately depends on what the sources of the problem are. If as many hold the experience of African-Americans is 100% due to external circumstances imposed on them now and in the past, then the obvious solution is to remove these oppressive circumstances so that African-Americans can fulfill their potential to be no worse or no better than any other population of _Homo Sapiens_. But if African-American culture has really has “internalized racism” as some put it, then at some point that internalization has to be addressed. What conservative African-Americans complain of is that fighting racism needs to be distinct from perpetuating a culture of victimhood. If some small but crucial part of the problem IS internal, then focusing exclusively on the external will not solve the problem or may indeed actually institutionalize it. Some Black radicals like Malcolm X had harsher words for white liberals than for openly bigoted and racist whites\*, complaining that white liberals, far from being progressives fighting the good fight, essentially were trying to establish for African-Americans a new dependency on white largesse. \*Some of the most openly racist and white supremacist groups of the 1960s voiced a certain smirking respect for the Nation of Islam: blacks who at least had the guts to hate whites back, and their equal contempt for liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/364 "2025-08-21T01:37:39Z")
…so the stereotype you agree with is: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/365 "2025-08-21T01:54:40Z")
Yeah. I’m sorry Lumpy, that was a reasonably thoughtful analysis that clearly indicates you are infected with the woke mind virus. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/366 "2025-08-21T04:58:17Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I wasn’t referring to Myers-Briggs; everyone knows that’s not scientific. I mean the 5-factor model that psychologists use Other systems based on the lexical hypothesis are just as flawed as M-B - the Big Five is just the current hotness in the voodoo side of psych, but it’s still based on ideas full of holes. Plenty of [current research](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33252975/) shows it’s yet another psychometric test that doesn’t hold for non-WEIRD\* people. Psychologists also use Myers-Briggs, BTW. \* Western, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/367 "2025-08-21T06:22:39Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > Indeed [https://archive.ph/gLru4](https://archive.ph/gLru4) > [@](#): > > White Democrats suddenly started expressing dramatically higher levels of concern about racial inequality and discrimination, while showing greater enthusiasm for racial diversity and immigration. (While political disputes around race are often found under the same umbrella as gender and sexual orientation, where attitudes are also shifting, the relatively recent, relatively sudden change that constitutes the Great Awokening is fundamentally about race and its relationship to national identity.) If you want to call a sweeping change in beliefs a ‘mind virus’ then I can’t stop you. Most people would probably say they changed their views due to greater awareness of the problem - thanks to social media highlighting events like police shootings of unarmed black men, and influential articles spreading ideas like systemic racism. * * * > [@MrDibble](#): > > Plenty of [current research](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33252975/) shows it’s yet another psychometric test that doesn’t hold for non-WEIRD\* > people. Yes, that was one of the valid criticisms I was referring to. It’s something I’m interested in, but there doesn’t seem to be much knowledge of on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/368 "2025-08-21T16:19:11Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > …so the stereotype you agree with is: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_? That there is an element of incorrigibility in play that cannot be addressed from the outside. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/369 "2025-08-21T19:13:40Z")
It would help if you stopped trying to be coy. Are you agreeing with the following stereotype: Black people are incorrigible? (I don’t think your answer is going to shock anyone) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/370 "2025-08-21T21:01:48Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > Black people are incorrigible? Not inherently, no. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/371 "2025-08-21T21:04:06Z")
So that’s a _yes_. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/372 "2025-08-21T21:16:48Z")
Are you simply flatly contradicting me, or are you going to explain that? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/373 "2025-08-21T22:19:20Z")
What’s to explain? A conditional _no_ is a definitional _yes_. “Not inherently, no.” has the same meaning as “Yes, but not inherently.” You said as much in Post 363. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/374 "2025-08-21T23:10:29Z")
That is nonetheless not identical to the blanket statement > [@Zoobi](#): > > Black people are incorrigible? If you really want to say “A- **HA** , you ARE a bigot!” please do so in so many words. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/375 "2025-08-21T23:33:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That is nonetheless not identical to the blanket statement > > > [@Zoobi](#): > > > > Black people are incorrigible? See that little squiggly thing at the end of Zoobi’s post? That, also by definition, means that what preceded it is not a statement. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/376 "2025-08-22T00:44:50Z")
There’s no aha monument to be had here. You just seem like you cannot explicitly state what bigoted stereotype you agree with and how you qualify your agreement. Why can’t you fill in the blanks here? I agree with the bigoted stereotype (blank) because (blank) is true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561.md?page=18)