# Vortex Bladeless Turbines **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 16, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820 "2015-10-16T15:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/1 "2015-10-16T15:48:17Z")
check it out, I guess. Could be an enormous improvement to wind turbines, eliminating many of the objections (footprint, bird kills, etc.) > **[Vortex bladeless turbines wobble to generate energy](https://newatlas.com/vortex-bladeless-wind-turbine-generator/37563/)** > > Looking somewhat like a giant reed gently swaying in the wind, the new Vortexbladeless wind-driven generator prototype produces electricity with very few moving parts, on avery small footprint, and in almost complete silence. Designed to reduce... and, con, [http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537721/bladeless-wind-turbines-may-offer-more-form-than-function/](http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537721/bladeless-wind-turbines-may-offer-more-form-than-function/) ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/2 "2015-10-16T18:20:00Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > many of the objections (footprint, bird kills, etc.) oh come on! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/3 "2015-10-16T18:44:26Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > oh come on! > > ☹ 😕 ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/4 "2015-10-16T19:26:16Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > 😕 the negative, no what they are calling negative effect of wind turbines like there are no other birds dying up there in the sky? all done by turbines?? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/5 "2015-10-16T20:05:12Z")
There are a \*lot \*of “innovative” wind turbine architectures that come down to pure bullshit, that anyone with an ME or Aero degree can determine easily. [This site](http://www.wind-works.org/cms/index.php?id=113) is great for debunking them. But in the meanwhile, they’re good for attracting “investments” from the greentech VC community. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/6 "2015-10-16T20:15:48Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > the negative, no what they are calling negative effect of wind turbines > > like there are no other birds dying up there in the sky? all done by turbines?? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here, given the lack of complete sentences, but it sounds like you’re trying to downplay the lethality of turbines to native bird populations, which is actually a problem. The first incarnation of the Altamont wind farm in California was responsible for thousands of bird deaths, including dozens of golden eagles, annually: > [@](#): > > The small turbines used at Altamont are dangerous to various raptors that hunt California Ground Squirrels in the area. 1300 raptors are killed annually, among them 70 golden eagles, which are federally protected; in total, 4700 birds are killed annually. The farm was closed down and is being re-opened a few at a time, as they replace the lower, faster turbines with taller, slower ones that the birds (a) fly under and (b) can see/hear coming and get out of the way of. > **[Altamont Pass wind farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Pass_Wind_Farm)** > > The Altamont Pass wind farm is located in the Altamont Pass of the Diablo Range in Northern California. It is one of the earliest wind farms in the United States. The first wind turbines were placed on the Altamont in the early 1980s by Fayette Manufacturing Corporation, on land owned by cattle rancher Joe Jess. The wind farm is composed of 4,930 relatively small wind turbines of various types, making it at one time the largest wind farm in the world in terms of capacity. > Altamont Pass is stil... ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/7 "2015-10-17T09:00:09Z")
“Vortex”, “magnets” and “green”; oh boy, the three words at the top of my “This is probably BS” checklist. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/8 "2015-10-19T17:39:10Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > the negative, no what they are calling negative effect of wind turbines > > like there are no other birds dying up there in the sky? all done by turbines?? Those same wind current areas that are so favorable for wind turbines happen to be favorites of migrating birds. The birds are flying at a height where they aren’t wary of large predators bigger than a hawk so have no instinct to avoid any large moving object. A bus sized rotating blade just doesn’t ping their radar. In a past career I evaluated generation options for utilities and this issue is quite real. ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/9 "2015-10-19T22:02:42Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here, given the lack of complete sentences, but it sounds like you’re trying to downplay the lethality of turbines to native bird populations, which is actually a problem. The first incarnation of the Altamont wind farm in California was responsible for thousands of bird deaths, including dozens of golden eagles, annually: > > [Altamont Pass wind farm - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Pass_Wind_Farm) Lack of complete sentences…oh well, I do my best. I never claimed I had Phd in English. 🙂 So I guess all those planes in the sky have not killed any of our winged creatures? :eek: I suppose you support not cutting down trees Plastic bags etc Do you even recycle? 😃 we’re taking wiki for gospel now? You’ve got to be kidding me :o So in short, I don’t complete sentences, I downplay the deaths of SOOO many birds and I like smilies…cheer up man, or woman, you don’t have to read my half sentences…tee hee 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/10 "2015-10-22T13:18:08Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > Lack of complete sentences…oh well, I do my best. I never claimed I had Phd in English. 🙂 > > So I guess all those planes in the sky have not killed any of our winged creatures? :eek: > > I suppose you support not cutting down trees > Plastic bags > etc > > Do you even recycle? 😃 > > we’re taking wiki for gospel now? You’ve got to be kidding me :o > > So in short, I don’t complete sentences, I downplay the deaths of SOOO many birds > and I like smilies…cheer up man, or woman, you don’t have to read my half sentences…tee hee 😃 I’m not sure why I’m responding to this but what the heck. It appears as if you take issue with conservationists’ approach to wind turbines and birds. That’s fine. There’s a zillion birds out there and you may have a valid point about bird kills. It doesn’t matter what I as an engineer think about the conservation issue. If the greenies win the war I still have to follow their rules. There is a big enough outcry over birds and turbine blades that the researchers and designers have to examine alternatives. Wind turbine blades DO kill birds as well as airplanes, jets, and I’m guessing - coming soon to your neighborhood - drones. Does it mean we throw up our hands and quit? No, we weigh the good and the bad about any design technology and explore better alternatives. For the record - I personally think that the technology mentioned in the op has a slim chance of providing a cost effective solution. But go ahead and knock yourself out taunting people who are presenting logical replies to your posts. It’s not like this place is about fighting ignorance or anything. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vortex-bladeless-turbines/734820/11 "2015-10-22T13:31:15Z")
How many birds are killed by the pollution from fossil fuel power plants? Compare that to the number killed by windmills and that tells you how to consider the bird issue. Wind energy isn’t all that practical, it requires large optimized windmills to compete with the cost of fossil fuel energy production. However, reductions in construction cost and maintenance could make some of the alternative wind generators more practical over time, but those same improvements are likely to benefit the conventional wind generators just as much. We’re likely to see the same kind of horizontal access long blade rotors remain the primary type of wind power generation for as long as wind energy is practical at all. The exception might be small household type windmills akin to the old farm windmills, not all that efficient or practical, but appealing to the ‘off the grid’ type.