# Vote Fraud in Florida? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2000, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328 "2000-11-08T16:37:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/1 "2000-11-08T16:37:47Z")
Can anyone shed any light on allegations that there’s been a large amound of “irregularities” in Florida? I’ve heard allegations of misprinted ballots which would seem to favor Gore, plus allegations from the Bush camp that a few ballot boxes around Tallihassie have disappeared? What the fuck is happening down there? And what happens if, at the end of the day, they have to throw up their arms and say “The Florida vote is royally hosed and we can’t say who won”? ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/2 "2000-11-08T16:52:52Z")
I don’t know if these are the same ones but there were some (3?) ballot boxes missing last night that were soon after found hiding in plain sight pretty much where they were supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/3 "2000-11-08T16:57:26Z")
I don’t know where the missing ballot boxes are from. I heard that they were from Tallihassie. What county is that? I don’t have a road atlas or anything like that handy. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/4 "2000-11-08T17:03:57Z")
Regarding the “misprinted” ballots, from the ABCnews online site, [here](http://abcnews.go.com:80/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_WatchdogPart4001107.html) is an article, complete with a picture of the ballot. It sounds like two things: 1) The holes were lined up to make it confusing which hole to punch to vote for Gore. Unfortunately, you can’t really see where the holes are. 2) Sample ballots that didn’t match the real ballots, so if you followed the sample ballot to mark your real ballot, you’d mark the wrong candidate. Not pictured, but described in the text. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/5 "2000-11-08T17:06:40Z")
Actually, the ballots in questions, from West Palm Beach County, are designed in such a way that many who thought they were voting for Gore may have voted for Buchanan by mistake. You can see one [here](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/elections/palmbeachballot.htm). (Keep in mind that much of the population of this county is elderly and may not have the best eyesight.) ---
**Author:** ![ladybug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@ladybug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladybug)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/6 "2000-11-08T17:10:51Z")
**Diceman** , Tallahassee is in north Florida in … (_checks map_) Leon County. Not too far from the Georgia border. CNN is reporting that a locked ballot box was found in a church daycare center in Dade County (Miami area). Apparently it was left behind after the polls closed. ---
**Author:** ![ladybug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@ladybug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladybug)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/7 "2000-11-08T17:17:34Z")
(_rereads OP_) Ballot boxes disappeared in Tallahassee, too? This morning I heard that the absolute earliest time the recount could be finished is 5 p.m. today. Who knows when we’ll find out the results. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/8 "2000-11-08T17:26:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Diceman wrote:_ > And what happens if, at the end of the day, they have to throw up their arms and say “The Florida vote is royally hosed and we can’t say who won”? This can’t happen. For better or worse Florida will say XXX won our state (and thus the overall election). Candidates can fight the decision as much as they want but in the end this is what will happen and the country will have to live with it. Think of it like a football game where a ref makes a bad call changing the outcome of the game. Even if everyone agrees it was a bad call once the game is over it’s over and the final score goes down in the books. (For the sake of argument ignore instant replay.) ---
**Author:** ![pezpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pezpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezpunk)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/9 "2000-11-08T17:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > **Can anyone shed any light on allegations that there’s been a large amound of “irregularities” in Florida** I have lived in Florida for about 8 years and I STILL can’t explain the irregularities down here! I think it has to do with inbreeding 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/10 "2000-11-08T17:55:02Z")
Question. And officemate claims that sample ballots were printed in a different order then the official ones, causing confusion. A) Is this common? (I would assume so, since the sample ballot is just that, a sample) B) Were the Reform and Democrat slots indeed swapped on the samples ballots from parts of florida? ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/11 "2000-11-08T17:57:34Z")
Ultimately, wouldn’t the question (of what to do) by up to the so-called “electors”? In Jr. High School Civics, I was taught that the “electoral college” is a real group of people - “electors”, with different numbers from different states. It is the electors who vote for president. In theory, they are entitled to disregard the popular vote. Once in a while, one does so. If all this is true, and the Florida vote stays “cloudy,” couldn’t the electors just vote for whomever they like better? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/12 "2000-11-08T18:05:01Z")
Yes, lucwarm, but its the popular election that determines who those electors are. Each candidate has 25 electors in Florida. If Bush wins the Fl. popular vote, then his 25 electors vote. If Gore wins the Fl. popular vote, then HIS 25 electors vote. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/13 "2000-11-08T18:11:43Z")
If Jeb Bush gets to send his electors to Tallahassee to vote on December 18 (which he will if George W wins FL by as little as 1 vote), trust me, those 25 people aren’t going to change their minds at the last minute. If some Repulican elector defected from Florida, I think it safe to say that George W and Jeb won’t be eating Christmas dinner in the same house. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/14 "2000-11-08T18:20:04Z")
\*\* lucwarm \*\* although in theory, an elector may vote for whomever (at least in some states, others mandate that the elector vote for the designated person), the position of “elector” is considered to be a “reward” for loyal party members, an honor, so while it MIGHT not be impossible, it’s improbable to the degree you shouldn’t worry about it. Re: sample ballots etc being different. An election worker I heard this am made the statement that it’s common for ballots to appear differently so that no single candidate appears in the “first position” on all ballots. or at least that was the stance in Ingham County, MI. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/15 "2000-11-08T18:39:17Z")
Is there any doubt that the petitions to the federal courts over each of these things have already been written, and are just waiting for the FL Sec of State’s proclamation of a winner? “Send lawyers, guns, and money / The shit has hit the fan.” - Warren Zevon ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/16 "2000-11-08T18:52:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff\_42 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Diceman wrote:_ > > And what happens if, at the end of the day, they have to throw up their arms and say “The Florida vote is royally hosed and we can’t say who won”? > > This can’t happen. For better or worse Florida will say XXX won our state (and thus the overall election). Candidates can fight the decision as much as they want but in the end this is what will happen and the country will have to live with it. > > Think of it like a football game where a ref makes a bad call changing the outcome of the game. Even if everyone agrees it was a bad call once the game is over it’s over and the final score goes down in the books. (For the sake of argument ignore instant replay.) \*\* That just ain’t so. If a court challenge is filed, _and_ the judge finds evidence of election fraud, he or she could theoretically throw out the results and order a special election. Granted, this is an unlikely result, but it is certainly a theoretical possibility. In a special election, Gore would have the edge, because Nader voters would know in advance\* that their votes could turn the entire national election, _and_ that their candidate has no chance of getting his 5%, and might be more inclined to switch over to Gore. ---
**Author:** ![writefetus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@writefetus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/writefetus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/17 "2000-11-08T18:53:08Z")
I have lived in Florida for about 8 years and I STILL can’t explain the irregularities down here! I think it has to do with inbreeding 😛 \*\* [/QUOTE] …I always suspected something in the water. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/18 "2000-11-08T19:06:01Z")
Think ol’ Jeb was screwing around with the voting? Wouldn’t surprise me… ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/19 "2000-11-08T19:06:09Z")
If they REALLY can’t settle the Florida electoral vote, the precedent is the 1876 Hayes/Tilden election. Odd coincidence - Florida was one of the disputed states in that fiasco as well. Background - in the 1876 election, results from four states were disputed, with enough votes to give Hayes the election if he was awarded all of them. A 15 person committee was formed to rule on the outcome, which eventually gaves Hayes the votes, 8-7, right along party lines. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328/20 "2000-11-08T19:22:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Think ol’ Jeb was screwing around with the voting? > Wouldn’t surprise me… > \*\* I did think it odd that the poll results were apparently markedly different from what the exit polls predicted. On the other hand, I believe the Florida Secretary of State (who is in charge of elections) is a Democrat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vote-fraud-in-florida/40328.md?page=2)