# Voter fraud: Republicans supress report they don't want to hear **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232 "2006-10-12T19:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/21 "2006-10-14T00:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > You didn’t hear about the Al Gore supporter who offered homeless people cigarettes in exchange for votes? How, pray tell, do homeless people actually register to vote? What with being homeless and all? (And after reading the linked article, it seems the only evidence available is “The Milwaukee GOP says it happened”. Pardon me while I don my skepticism cap…) ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/22 "2006-10-14T00:27:23Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] _Drudge Report_ for a cite? Are you quite sure? [/QUOTE] Fair enough. How about the [St. Petersburg Times](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/15/news_pf/Decision2004/Manual_reveals_voting.shtml)? > [@](#): > > Absent local evidence that Republicans are using such tactics to mislead minority voters, the document offers another suggestion: Democrats could make a “pre-emptive strike” and raise the issue anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/23 "2006-10-14T00:29:16Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] _Drudge Report_ for a cite? Are you quite sure? [/QUOTE] Y’know, **elucidator** , I’ll agree with **Age Quod Agis** on this in general, Drudge or not. Democrats are no more virgins at voter fraud than Republicans are. Lyndon Johnson’s first Senatorial election got some help from a burned down courthouse, if I recall correctly; there is no doubt whatsoever that Daley’s dead voters won Illinois, and the election, for Kennedy. Thank goodness. (By the time Nixon did become President, the world geopolitical layout had changed to the extent that Nixon had to abandon his Red-baiting persona.) I won’t agree with his implications that the Democrats are more amenable to fraud. It varys - who’s in power at the polling place? Currently, it’s more the Republicans. And, also currently, the new voting machines have been demonstated to be more susceptible to fraud, and whose party is approving those machines? The Republicans. I also agree with this: > [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > I’d much rather stamp out all kinds of voter fraud, regardless of which party it helps or hurts. Absolutely. Let’s throw them _all_ in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/24 "2006-10-14T00:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] How, pray tell, do homeless people actually register to vote? What with being homeless and all? [/QUOTE] You’re right. That would involve some kind of _fraud_. I guess I hadn’t thought about that. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > (And after reading the linked article, it seems the only evidence available is “The Milwaukee GOP says it happened”. Pardon me while I don my skepticism cap…) The Opinion Journal article to which I linked also points out that the perpetrator apparently pled guilty to the charge. [This article suggests that she pled guilty to a lesser civil fine](http://www.tobacco.org/news/65380.html): > [@](#): > > WISN 12 News caught Democratic campaign volunteers giving homeless men packets of cigarettes after transporting them to City Hall to vote in the presidential election last November. Milstein had told WISN 12 News that she was working with the volunteers. > > Prosecutors say they still cannot identify the campaign workers who helped Connie Milstein and could not prove that Milstein violated state law. So instead of criminal charges, they issued a $5,000 civil forfeiture. > > Milstein’s lawyer said she will pay the fine. So if it never happened, why do you suppose she agreed to pay the fine? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/25 "2006-10-14T00:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I won’t agree with his implications that the Democrats are more amenable to fraud. [/quote] I didn’t mean to imply that. In fact, I tried to expressly disavow that implication with this statement (although it was buried at the end of a very long post, so I couldn’t blame you if you didn’t get to it): “_To be clear, I’m not suggesting that only Democrats commit voter fraud, or even that Democrats commit more voter fraud than Republicans._” I have no idea who actually commits more voter fraud, and it certainly happens enough on both sides that both sides should share in the blame equally. > [@](#): > > Absolutely. Let’s throw them _all_ in jail. Hear, hear. (Or is it “here, here”? Or maybe “hear here”?) ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/26 "2006-10-14T00:58:37Z")
**rjung** , here’s the [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on the smokes for votes](http://www2.jsonline.com/news/metro/may01/smokes04050301a.asp?format=print) debacle: > [@](#): > > A New York philanthropist and major Democratic donor will pay a $5,000 forfeiture and not contest a civil complaint filed Thursday by prosecutors probing allegations that she gave packages of cigarettes to homeless men in Milwaukee while drumming for votes in the fall presidential election. And if you’re really interested – which I kind of doubt – you might be willing to brave [this cite](http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/cyberalert/2000/cyb20001114.asp#3) which apparently has video of the woman handing out packs of smokes to homeless people. [Note – the video is from an ABC News report by Brian Ross, but the site is on the Media Research Center, which is highly partisan and biased] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/27 "2006-10-14T01:21:43Z")
Still, I tend to think that the party most likely to use money and power to acheive its political ends would be that party which has the most of both. Which would be, necessarily, the party most closely aligned with the running dog jackals of the ruling class. Hard to bribe election officials with food stamps. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/28 "2006-10-14T01:45:13Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Still, I tend to think that the party most likely to use money and power to acheive its political ends would be that party which has the most of both. Which would be, necessarily, the party most closely aligned with the running dog jackals of the ruling class. Hard to bribe election officials with food stamps. [/QUOTE] And that’s a good point, which I agree with. But, that can vary from location to location. And that’s why I attempted to make a point that it depends who’s in charge, locally. It’s merely that right now, it’s mostly Republicans. Sure, bash them for their actions, but, please, don’t act like some Democrats are not going to get caught too. As I said, let’s jug them all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/29 "2006-10-14T02:00:59Z")
WE can’t devise an open, reliable, tamper proof voting system that extends voting access equally to all citizens? Or that we don’t want to? And, of course, who’s interests are served by such an unequal distribution of access? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/30 "2006-10-14T20:53:00Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] And the DNC Manual suggesting that poll watchers [declare voter intimidation even when it doesn’t exist](http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc66.htm). [/QUOTE] :dubious: Didn’t we flush this bullshit [two years ago?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5367540&postcount=575) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/31 "2006-10-14T21:42:32Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] So if it never happened, why do you suppose she agreed to pay the fine? [/QUOTE] Possibly because it would be easier and cheaper to pay the fine than to pay a lawyer to contest it in court? I’m not saying that was the case, just that it might have been, and it sounds plausible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/32 "2006-10-15T05:45:40Z")
Anyone concerned about this should seriously consider working at the polls or volunteering to try to make sure irregularities don’t happen. They always need volunteers to drive people to the polls, man the phones, make calls and lots of other things. In my state we’re supposed to have a challenger from each party at the polls and we simply don’t have enough people to go around. The last election I was a challenger and had to go to three different locations because we were short handed. Lots of people are off on election day and if you aren’t, try to take a half day and help out. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/33 "2006-10-15T07:11:12Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] And if you’re really interested – which I kind of doubt – you might be willing to brave [this cite](http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/cyberalert/2000/cyb20001114.asp#3) which apparently has video of the woman handing out packs of smokes to homeless people. [Note – the video is from an ABC News report by Brian Ross, but the site is on the Media Research Center, which is highly partisan and biased] [/QUOTE] Yech, MRC – now I have to disinfect my keyboard with some rubbing alcohol… As for the video clip in the cite, it doesn’t offer anything other than implications. The clip simply cuts from a scene of folks huddled around a car to Connie Milstein introducing herself, attempting to induce the viewer into inferring that Ms. Milstein was somehow related to the folks in the car scene, but offering no evidence or even making a claim that she was. Even Michael Moore doesn’t stoop to that level. “Hey, we heard a rumor that the Gore campaign was handing out cigarettes to homeless people so they’d vote for Gore. And here’s a Gore campaign volunteer! We don’t have to say anything, we’ll let you draw your own unsubstantiated conclusions…” ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232/34 "2006-10-15T22:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] As for the video clip in the cite, it doesn’t offer anything other than implications. The clip simply cuts from a scene of folks huddled around a car to Connie Milstein introducing herself, attempting to induce the viewer into inferring that Ms. Milstein was somehow related to the folks in the car scene, but offering no evidence or even making a claim that she was. [/quote] “Offering no evidence” that she was “related to the people in the car scene”? Who do you suppose that blonde-ish lady standing next to the truck was? I’ll give you a hint: her name rhymes with Shmonnie Shmillstein. She sure hasn’t disputed it. In fact, she admitted that she’d handed out cigs to the homeless people that had just voted. > [@](#): > > “Hey, we heard a rumor that the Gore campaign was handing out cigarettes to homeless people so they’d vote for Gore. And here’s a Gore campaign volunteer! We don’t have to say anything, we’ll let you draw your own unsubstantiated conclusions…” Absolutely. Totally unsubstantiated. Other than the homeless people who were given cigarettes talking about what happened, and the video showing what happened, and Millstein admitting to similar events, and Millstein agreeing not to contest the charges. Other than that, totally unsubstantiated. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-fraud-republicans-supress-report-they-dont-want-to-hear/376232.md?page=1)