# Voter ID law with 9+ year's notice in advance **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 21, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066 "2014-10-21T19:41:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/161 "2014-10-26T04:07:26Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Have you looked around lately? > > Everything else depends on access to money. You can vote like it’s going out of style, and yet the lobbyists’ voices will shout much louder and be heard. Individuals who donate tens of thousands of dollars and yet do not vote have more influence than individuals who donate nothing and yet vote. > > A voting bloc may be significant, but that requires marching in lockstep with an identifiable demographic. A poor black Republican or a Democrat in rural Texas or, may the gods forfend, a third-party voter can vote all they like, but it will do no good. I agree the influence of money is a major problem in our political system. But it’s a subject for another thread (several of which already exist). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/162 "2014-10-26T04:10:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It would give gun owners plenty of time to turn their guns in. With 9 years to do so, no gun owner could claim they weren’t given enough time to comply. Even gun owners who don’t have a car, or live in a rural area, or have little income. > Now, would that be a \*good \*idea? That’s debatable, and a different question. But again - this is a thread about practicality and the effect of time. Then I think you’ve misread the objections people would have to that issue as well. People aren’t objecting to voter id’s (and they wouldn’t object to gun confiscation) because of the time element involved. They object to these proposals completely. They feel they’re wrong now and will be wrong in nine years or will be wrong in a hundred years if it comes to that. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/163 "2014-10-26T04:10:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’ve never heard about absentee ballots? Really? I agree his response was very poorly-worded but to the best of my knowledge voter ID laws have no affect on absentee ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/164 "2014-10-26T16:25:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Then I think you’ve misread the objections people would have to that issue as well. People aren’t objecting to voter id’s (and they wouldn’t object to gun confiscation) because of the time element involved. They object to these proposals completely. They feel they’re wrong now and will be wrong in nine years or will be wrong in a hundred years if it comes to that. You’re going too far. I don’t object in principle to voter ID. It’s a near certainty that a national identification “card” is coming, and should be coming in the future. Unique identification is the trend of the world. How it will be implemented is unclear, and the fewer systems worldwide the better, but pretty soon you’ll need it for every interaction in everyday life. Obviously, a small number of diehards will resist this furiously but as they die off so will any thought that it could ever have been otherwise. The issue with voter ID today is that it is being gamed for political purposes. Well, the issue with voter ID always has been that. Here’s a fun anecdote from Victoria Bassetti’s _Electoral Dysfunction_: > [@](#): > > In 1836, when the Whig-dominated Pennsylvania legislature passed a law creating its first voter registry, the requirement was imposed only in Philadelphia, home to a large concentration of Democratic voters. Democratic delegates cried foul. They objected that the system would disenfranchise poor voters, who would not be at home when the assessors came to their houses to register them. (In contrast to current registration systems, early registries were often lists created by government officials who went door to door and registered people.) One year later, when the Democrats sought to impose the same registration condition throughout the state, taking the fight into Whig strongholds, their propose was rejected. That’s uncannily similar to today’s world, in which Republicans advocate for voter ID, to lower Democratic voting, and therefore object to methods, like early voting, that might give Democratic voters a more even chance. Heads we win, tales you lose is the ultimate political philosophy. Implementation, implementation, implementation. That’s the one and only issue. Keep repeating that until Velocity gets it. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/165 "2014-10-26T16:29:13Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Does this future law resemble the [SB 14 law in Texas](http://www.nationalmemo.com/texas-voter-id-law-rejects-student-ids-accepts-gun-permits/), which rejects Social Security, Medicaid, and student ID cards as valid forms of voter ID, but accepts concealed handgun permits? > > If so, I can’t support it no matter what the timing. And I suspect just about any implementation of such a law will be tuned to favor whatever party is calling for it. That’s it’s real purpose: To disenfranchise the opposition. Back when that Texas law was in the process of being legislated, I read that expired gun permits from other states would be acceptable and that current University of Texas student photo IDs would not. Other than supporting the Republicans what possible purpose could such a design ever have? I guess the final version of the law limits gun permits to current ones from Texas, but still does not allow student IDs. Is that correct? Or is a 1979 Arkansas gun permit still OK? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/166 "2014-10-26T16:34:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’re going too far. I don’t object in principle to voter ID. > > Implementation, implementation, implementation. That’s the one and only issue. Keep repeating that until Velocity gets it. You’re right. You could have a politically neutral voter ID program in theory. But it’s obvious that’s not what’s being sought here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/167 "2014-10-26T16:36:30Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Back when that Texas law was in the process of being legislated, I read that expired gun permits from other states would be acceptable and that current University of Texas student photo IDs would not. Other than supporting the Republicans what possible purpose could such a design ever have? > > I guess the final version of the law limits gun permits to current ones from Texas, but still does not allow student IDs. Is that correct? Or is a 1979 Arkansas gun permit still OK? Maybe they’ll accept a Romney bumper sticker as valid ID. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/168 "2014-10-26T20:23:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe they’ll accept a Romney bumper sticker as valid ID. Having a McCain/Palin means you get to vote twice. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/169 "2014-10-26T21:49:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I agree his response was very poorly-worded but to the best of my knowledge voter ID laws have no affect on absentee ballots. True, and that only emphasizes the real intent of these laws. Essentially \*all \*identifiable voting fraud involves absentee ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/170 "2014-10-26T21:49:44Z")
I’m posting these mostly for my own amusement, because citing individual outrages just leads to link wars and besides these headlines are not even trying to be impartial. I just happened to find them almost side by side on Fark after leaving this thread and they’re almost too perfect examples of what I’ve been arguing. Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID [Arizona GOP Will Murder All Early Voting, Unless It Is With Mitt Romney](http://wonkette.com/564273/arizona-gop-will-murder-all-early-voting-unless-it-is-with-mitt-romney) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/171 "2014-10-26T22:11:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Arizona GOP Will Murder All Early Voting, Unless It Is With Mitt Romney](http://wonkette.com/564273/arizona-gop-will-murder-all-early-voting-unless-it-is-with-mitt-romney) Interesting excerpt from this story: > [@](#): > > (Maricopa County Republican Party chairman) LaFaro acknowledged that the Republican Party has sent GOTV canvassers to neighborhoods…LaFaro also insisted he wasn’t reassured that county election workers verify signatures on ballots. > > “From the time those ballots are mailed to the time they’re turned back in, lots of things can happen,” he said. So the Republican County chairman says that his volunteers collect absentee ballots - and says that he knows ways that collected absentee ballots can be tampered with. I think somebody should be checking the Republican absentee ballots in Maricopa County. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/172 "2014-10-26T22:17:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I agree his response was very poorly-worded but to the best of my knowledge voter ID laws have no affect on absentee ballots. Due to my age, the County Clerk sent me a form asking if I’d like a ballot so I could vote by mail. I’m hardly decrepit but thought it would be convenient, so I filled in the form. Mostly, I just asserted that I am who they think I am, still living at the address on my voter registration card. So they sent me a ballot, which I completed & put into the envelope supplied. I signed the outside of the envelope & dropped it in the mail. Oh, I had to go buy a stamp–who uses them any more? At no time was any photo ID involved. Of course, the state of Texas probably assumes that my age puts me in the All Republican demographic. Bless their hearts… Sounds like the proposed Voter ID would be Federal. So–why not make that the only ID required for voting? We’ll make it easy for those who already have photo ID’s. They can just drop by a Federal office any time in the 9 years, show their ID & get the Federal Voting ID. Set up neighborhood Mobile ID centers & even go door to door for those who need it. Many housebound folks are already using mail-in ballots–don’t let\* them\* get away without proper ID! Of course, everything will be free. Well, paid for by Your Tax Dollar. I don’t think this is a good idea because I haven’t seen much evidence of Voter Fraud. But I’m sure the law abiding folks who want Voter ID would be glad to line up & get their Federal papers… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/173 "2014-10-28T17:19:18Z")
How many people live in the same place for 9 years straight? Does everyone get 9 years after moving to a new address to get ID? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/174 "2014-10-28T20:03:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Total nonsense. It’s not the poor people we don’t trust. It’s the people who would abuse the poor that we’re keeping an eye on. Oh, poor poor people! The abuse they must endure to go to the DMV and get an ID! We might as well have them marching down streets to the gulags! The inhumanity that they must suffer so! I wouldn’t wish a trip to the DMV on my worst enemy! In fact, I wish I could make it so all echelons of society must go through the Gates of Hell to get a photo ID. Maybe then we would all understand the torture we subject upon our poor. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/175 "2014-10-28T20:21:01Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I wouldn’t wish a trip to the DMV on my worst enemy! Oh, so you’ve been before? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/176 "2014-10-28T20:37:01Z")
Let’s just put this DMV thing in perspective. Your car is in the shop, you have the day off and your wife has taken your other car to get to work. Your neighbor asks for a little favor, can you go to the DMV for him to register his car? He’s stuck at home waiting for the cable guy. He’s got all the documents, you just have to get there, wait on line, and hand the stuff to the helpful person behind the glass. No, you can’t borrow his car, it has no plates, you’ll have to take a bus or cab to get there. The question here isn’t whether or not you’re going to help your neighbor with this minimally burdensome task, it’s how hard will you laugh in his face when you tell him to get bent. And this is a guy who you helped build a shed, because you’re neighborly that way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/177 "2014-10-29T03:18:25Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Oh, poor poor people! The abuse they must endure to go to the DMV and get an ID! Your side is going to make sure they get abused. It’s the whole point of this operation. Like I said, I’m not making this up. Look at abortions in Texas. Conservatives decided to “regulate” clinics and shut them all down. Now women seeking an abortion in Texas - which is still theoretically legal - have to drive twelve hours each way to get to an actual location. Or I could just point out the way Conservatives “regulated” voting procedures throughout the South back before 1957. No abuses back then, right? When conservatives get a chance to “regulate” voter ID’s, what makes you think they won’t do the same thing again? > [@Stringbean](#): > > We might as well have them marching down streets to the gulags! Don’t get ahead of yourself. Save something for Phase Two. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/178 "2014-10-29T16:17:11Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Oh, poor poor people! The abuse they must endure to go to the DMV and get an ID! We might as well have them marching down streets to the gulags! Could you stand to lose a day’s pay for an RMV trip just so you could vote? Maybe you could, but many could not, as I hope you understand. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/179 "2014-10-29T16:25:13Z")
Quoting a post from the ID thread in the Pit: > [@I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7254): > > This story – about [Eric Kennie](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law) – pretty nicely encapsulates why I find Voter ID, as currently implemented in states like Texas, so problematic. > > It’s stories like this that erode my confidence in elections. The only thing I _do_ have confidence in, is that there are more going to be more people like Eric Kennie than the number of fraudulent votes Texas Voter ID laws will prevent. > > And tell me, **Bricker**. It looks like Eric Kennie has spent upwards of 20 hours sorting through the bureaucratic obstacles placed before him, _and_ spent $23 on a birth certificate (a very substantial sum to him – the equivalent of $315 for someone making $100k), and he STILL can’t vote this time around. Do you feel he esteems the vote too lightly? With 9 years, Eric Kennie could probably get the proper ID. But what’s the benefit of making him do so? And since it is nigh-impossible for him to do so before the election, I would assume that the 9-year supporters will agree that the law in Texas, as it is now, is suppressing Mr. Kennie’s vote, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066/180 "2014-10-29T16:36:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > With 9 years, Eric Kennie could probably get the proper ID. But what’s the benefit of making him do so? And since it is nigh-impossible for him to do so before the election, I would assume that the 9-year supporters will agree that the law in Texas, as it is now, is suppressing Mr. Kennie’s vote, correct? Of course his vote is being suppressed. However, to answer your other question: right now he deals in “cans and cash.” Without an ID, that’s all he can ever do. He doesn’t have a bank account and he has never left Austin: are you okay with saying he should never have a bank account and can never board a plane out of Austin? Sure, he can’t afford a plane ticket (now), but what if a friend or relative buys him a trip to Vegas for the weekend? What if he is arrested for the crime some other black man is alleged to have committed (and don’t tell me that doesn’t happen)? What if he is called upon to prove he is the owner of his house? I just don’t think “people lead a marginal existence” is a good argument for the status quo. It is a good argument for CHANGING the status quo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-law-with-9-years-notice-in-advance/702066.md?page=10)