# Voter ID Laws: Necessary to combat rampant fraud or subtle subjugation of the Democratic demographic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971 "2012-05-24T17:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/201 "2012-05-29T17:46:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not everybody who is in favor of Voter ID laws IS a bigot, but too often they are far too willing to exploit the bigotry of others. Playing the OH MY GOD THE ILLEGALS! card was a big part of the anti-health care reform hysteria, now it’s being used to justify the disenfranchisement of Democratic-leaning voters. I take you at your word that you like Hispanic people, but shouldn’t that tend you toward repudiating measures meant to intimidate minority voting? That’s just it, I don’t think I.D. is so much to ask for that it should be viewed as intimidating minority voting. I know a lot of poor people and very few that don’t have I.D. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/202 "2012-05-29T17:47:56Z")
Oh, **Bricker** , you poor dear! Seven years of college, and you get flummoxed by a hippy from Waco. You oughta get a refund. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/203 "2012-05-29T17:48:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How about me, who gets hassled because no one will believe that George Clooney isn’t here voting under an assumed name? How come my anectdote isn’t data? > > (I can sorta understand it, the resemblance is striking, but still…) I didn’t discount your anecdote. I just think that the sort of thing \*\*Saint Cad \*\*describes is a whole lot more plausible. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/204 "2012-05-29T17:50:01Z")
> [@David42](#): > > That’s just it, I don’t think I.D. is so much to ask for that it should be viewed as intimidating minority voting. I know a lot of poor people and very few that don’t have I.D. You asked them? You walked up and said “Hi, say, I know you’re poor, can you show me your ID?” WTF? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/205 "2012-05-29T17:50:57Z")
> [@David42](#): > > And of course, no illegal EVER commits any other kind of crime. Might call attention to himself, you know. > > Just because you point out why crimes might be senseless doesn’t mean they don’t happen. > > I’m still wondering how the Manson family could have been thinking what they did think. I’m trying to figure out if you’re intentionally missing the point, or if you’re really that dense. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/206 "2012-05-29T17:51:44Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I didn’t discount your anecdote. I just think that the sort of thing \*\*Saint Cad \*\*describes is a whole lot more plausible. Still an anecdote, **Davey**. Doesn’t mean shit to a tree. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/207 "2012-05-29T17:52:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Anyone else reading – apparently 95% of you understand **elucidator** ’s argument, and I’m being a dim bulb. Please help me by stating it in clear, concise language. Well maybe I’m a dim bulb, or just lost track, and don’t really rmember exactly what it is you’re supposed to be rebutting. I second the motion for clarification, but to avoid the semantics angle, a reference to the post # will satisfy me. Please do elucidate, **elucidator**. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/208 "2012-05-29T17:53:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Still an anecdote, **Davey**. Doesn’t mean shit to a tree. Look, I’m just asking why no-one is concerned about the kind of disenfranchisement that **Saint Cad** describes. Let’s suppose it’s a hypothetical, why don’t you care? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/209 "2012-05-29T17:54:48Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’m trying to figure out if you’re intentionally missing the point, or if you’re really that dense. I suppose for some people you have to SAY it’s actually tongue-in-cheek. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/210 "2012-05-29T17:54:49Z")
> [@David42](#): > > That’s just it, I don’t think I.D. is so much to ask for that it should be viewed as intimidating minority voting. I know a lot of poor people and very few that don’t have I.D. It’s too much if they don’t have it and can’t get it. Ask Wilola Lee: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15103292&postcount=102](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15103292&postcount=102) Do we just tell people in her situation “Oh, it’s not too much to ask for. If you don’t have it, tough luck!” ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/211 "2012-05-29T17:57:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You asked them? You walked up and said “Hi, say, I know you’re poor, can you show me your ID?” WTF? Yep, that’s the ONLY way I could know whether my friends have I.D. Maybe just the course of life, things like stopping off to pick up a pack of smokes, or maybe running through the bank drive through, or hitting the liquor store for a six-pack. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/212 "2012-05-29T18:04:52Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It’s too much if they don’t have it and can’t get it. Ask Wilola Lee: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15103292&postcount=102](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15103292&postcount=102) > Do we just tell people in her situation “Oh, it’s not too much to ask for. If you don’t have it, tough luck!” If you’d have bothered to read post #165, you’d have already had my answer. Like it or not, we are unable to devise a system that protects all rights at all times, and that IS how “we” do things in “this country.” Your concept of law and particularly equal protection is quite lacking–“Joey has a lollipop, I get one too, end of story.” For you, the identification of a fundamental right is the ONLY factor, ever. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/213 "2012-05-29T18:10:34Z")
Let me ask you a direct question: do you believe that the sole motivation behind this effort is the integrity of the voting rolls? That the electoral advantage of winnowing the number of probable Democrat voters never crossed their minds? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/214 "2012-05-29T18:11:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, **Bricker** , you poor dear! Seven years of college, and you get flummoxed by a hippy from Waco. You oughta get a refund. I’m sure **Bricker** will run in shame at the revelation that my hair is half-way down my back, I smoke[d] pot regularly right up until the statute of limitation, and think Led Zeppelin is the shit, because I made him admit I was “right” about the U.S. v. Jones GPS matter. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/215 "2012-05-29T18:12:15Z")
Voting is not lollipops. Nowhere did I say “fundamental right is the ONLY factor, ever”, but the state needs a compelling need to violate it’s own constitution. So you’re down to conflating children crying for candy with someone wanting to keep her right to vote. Is that all you have? Thanks for trying. Come again. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/216 "2012-05-29T18:15:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Let me ask you a direct question: do you believe that the sole motivation behind this effort is the integrity of the voting rolls? That the electoral advantage of winnowing the number of probable Democrat voters never crossed their minds? What I am saying is that it (an electoral advantage) DOES NOT MATTER as long as their reason is compelling, and they have offered the least restrictive method of combatting voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/217 "2012-05-29T18:16:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Voting is not lollipops. > > Nowhere did I say “fundamental right is the ONLY factor, ever”, but the state needs a compelling need to violate it’s own constitution. > > So you’re down to conflating children crying for candy with someone wanting to keep her right to vote. Is that all you have? > > Thanks for trying. Come again. And ensuring honest elections isn’t compelling? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/218 "2012-05-29T18:40:44Z")
> [@David42](#): > > And ensuring honest elections isn’t compelling? First show that there is a real threat to the integrity of elections. Then show me that the threat that comes from disenfranchising innocents isn’t greater. And it is a threat. If we can justify violating an innocent person’s right to vote, what’s next? We’ve already partially done away with Habeas Corpus out of fear of foreigners. We already allow ourselves to be groped at airports. Looks like voting is next. What will it be after that? Maybe… guns! :eek: Yes, I know it’s a slippery slope argument, but sometimes the slope is slippery. The more we justify this kind of thing to ourselves, the easier it becomes to do it with something else the next time we feel threatened. But hey, let’s just throw it all away because thousands of evil Mexicans (and that’s who people are worried about, don’t fool yourself) might be willing to go to jail because they like the DREAM Act! ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/219 "2012-05-29T18:45:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How about me, who gets hassled because no one will believe that George Clooney isn’t here voting under an assumed name? How come my anectdote isn’t data? > > (I can sorta understand it, the resemblance is striking, but still…) So are you accusing me of lying? Was I or was I not disenfranchised - yes or no? If yes, would it have been prevented by photo ID verification? So the Left’s unfounded accusations and nebulous “not zero” claims are proof for your side, but an actual example of voter fraud is not? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/220 "2012-05-29T18:51:07Z")
Who said anything about lying? An anecdote is just that, a story. From some anonymous guy on a message board. How the hell would I know if its true or not? Impersonal facts, what we call “data”, are simply more reliable. Have any of those? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=12)