# Voter ID Laws: Necessary to combat rampant fraud or subtle subjugation of the Democratic demographic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971 "2012-05-24T17:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/461 "2012-06-02T17:39:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What about my “voter confidence”? What about my expectation that elections are conducted on a level playing field? Mine don’t count, mine aren’t part of the absolutely crucial issue of voter confidence? Seems to me that if the Republicans (or anybody else, for that matter) can pass legislation to tilt the field in their favor, that isn’t one hundred percent _kosher_. Actually, that’s mega-_trayf_, that’s a ham and cheese sandwich with a nice glass milk. > > And this: > > **Bricker** can be very circumspect and polite, the very paragon of civility. So long as he thinks he’s winning. When he thinks he’s losing the argument (which is fortunately quite rare), he gets nasty. Like this gem of cogent analysis. > > Now, that’s a hard one to answer, because everybody knows that’s true, that Democrats court the massive illegal alien and felon demographic. Otherwise, they couldn’t ever win, since everybody also knows that America is a center-right country, and all right thinking Americans agree with **Bricker**. Can’t ask for a cite for something like that, its something everybody knows. > > Punching below the belt isn’t good form, **Bricker**. Knifing below the belt is worse. Why is it a knife below the belt to say that Democrats expect to gain electoral advantage, but perfectly fair to say that Republicans expect to gain electoral advantage, by manipulating the rules and field of voter registration and voting itself? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/462 "2012-06-02T17:44:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not a question of merit, a question of method. Treating an infected toenail with antibiotics has merit, amputation does not. if tis infected with flesh eating bacteria amputation has much merit. If you ahve a better method that would assure me we have honest elections, I’m listening. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/463 "2012-06-02T18:21:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it a knife below the belt to say that Democrats expect to gain electoral advantage, but perfectly fair to say that Republicans expect to gain electoral advantage, by manipulating the rules and field of voter registration and voting itself? Oh, **Bricker** , please! Come _off_ it! Jeez, man, try to maintain some dignity, won’t you? I have solid proof that “Republicans expect to gain electoral advantage”, I have the testimony of the Boards Foremost Legal Authority, the Professor Irwin Corey of Jurisprudence, to wit: > [@](#): > > …I agree with you that the people pushing these reforms are doing so because they perceive political advantage in doing so… Post #397, if your memory fails… And you come here with some bullshit equivalence, based on the repulsive slur that Dems protect the voting non-rights of felons and illegal aliens, with no evidence whatsoever! And bat the big brown innocent eyes, like you have no idea what depths you’ve sunk to? Have you any scruples at all? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/464 "2012-06-03T05:16:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it a knife below the belt to say that Democrats expect to gain electoral advantage, but perfectly fair to say that Republicans expect to gain electoral advantage, by manipulating the rules and field of voter registration and voting itself? The Democrats expect to gain an advantage through more Americans voting, the Republicans are trying to gain advantage through taking away the vote from vulnerable Americans. You see the difference? The former is the intended function of the electoral process, the latter is tyranny. Don’t want to lose? Change to appeal to the voters. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/465 "2012-06-03T07:12:28Z")
Republicans with charisma? My god… they could rule the universe! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/466 "2012-06-03T12:53:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, **Bricker** , please! Come _off_ it! Jeez, man, try to maintain some dignity, won’t you? > > I have solid proof that “Republicans expect to gain electoral advantage”, I have the testimony of the Boards Foremost Legal Authority, the Professor Irwin Corey of Jurisprudence, to wit: > Post #397, if your memory fails… > > And you come here with some bullshit equivalence, based on the repulsive slur that Dems protect the voting non-rights of felons and illegal aliens, with no evidence whatsoever! And bat the big brown innocent eyes, like you have no idea what depths you’ve sunk to? > > Have you any scruples at all? Oh, I see. I think. You can say Republicans are seeking political advantage because I acknowledged it, but I can’t say Democrats are seeking political advantage because you haven’t acknowledged that? Let me make sure I understand you. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/467 "2012-06-03T13:07:52Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > The Democrats expect to gain an advantage through more Americans voting, the Republicans are trying to gain advantage through taking away the vote from vulnerable Americans. > > You see the difference? The former is the intended function of the electoral process, the latter is tyranny. > > Don’t want to lose? Change to appeal to the voters. I can say, similarly, “Don’t want to lose? Change the appeal of voter ID laws to the public.” As long as the voter ID laws are passed by people that are elected by the people, as is the way of our representative democracy, then it is not tyranny. Do you guys really sit around and tell yourselves things like, “This is tyranny? Why won’t the people listen?” If so, I can only imagine your baffled disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/468 "2012-06-03T13:15:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …I can only imagine your baffled disappointment. Which is as it should be, because such bafflement only exists in your imagination. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/469 "2012-06-03T16:16:31Z")
Lies, Counselor. You’re posting lies. Simple enough for you? Not too flowery, I hope. Lies. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/470 "2012-06-03T18:11:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Lies, Counselor. You’re posting lies. Simple enough for you? Not too flowery, I hope. Lies. No, but in your attempt to simplify, you cut too MUCH detail. I’ve said a lot of things. What statement is a lie? Why? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/471 "2012-06-03T18:41:40Z")
You’re \*adorable \*when you pretend to be stupid, and you just can’t quite grasp what I’m saying. Puppies and kittens must line up for post-graduate work in cute. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/472 "2012-06-03T19:15:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can say, similarly, “Don’t want to lose? Change the appeal of voter ID laws to the public.” > > As long as the voter ID laws are passed by people that are elected by the people, as is the way of our representative democracy, then it is not tyranny. > > Do you guys really sit around and tell yourselves things like, “This is tyranny? Why won’t the people listen?” > > If so, I can only imagine your baffled disappointment. The people includes Americans stripped of their vote. How can the law be reflective of the people if some are prevented from voting? That’s the problem. You are arguing against democratic principles, because Republicans can’t stand its results. In a mind blowingly dishonest example of double think, you’re trying to claim preventing Americans from voting is democratic. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/473 "2012-06-03T19:24:17Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > The people includes Americans stripped of their vote. How can the law be reflective of the people if some are prevented from voting? Since [polls show that 70% of Americans back voter ID laws,](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75300.html) I don’t think we’re quite in the Catch-22 situation you say we are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/474 "2012-06-03T19:55:52Z")
Did you read the part about “reports Fox News”? And this: > [@](#): > > …Further, 50 percent of Americans said they believe opponents of voter ID laws were “trying to steal elections by increasing illegal votes by non-citizens and other ineligible voters,” compared to 45 percent who disagreed… Find that one a bit hard to swallow, but hey! _Fox News_ says it, \*\*John Mace \*\*cites it, must be legit! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/475 "2012-06-03T20:16:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Since [polls show that 70% of Americans back voter ID laws,](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75300.html) I don’t think we’re quite in the Catch-22 situation you say we are. Historic poll and literacy taxes were passed under the veil of a democratic process, with claims of public support. However rather than talk about what a stupid thing you posted, I’ll assume you must have taken a sharp blow to the head, and aren’t thinking straight. Please go get medical attention for your concussion. When you come back, consider this: Group A and B tend to have close elections. Group A when in power takes the vote away from a group that mostly falls under B. They could easily institute measures to minimize the damage to voting rights, but they don’t. They target B intentionally. How do you think this will affect the democratic process? Will Group A fairly have more power? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/476 "2012-06-03T20:31:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did you read the part about “reports Fox News”? > > And this: > > Find that one a bit hard to swallow, but hey! _Fox News_ says it, \*\*John Mace \*\*cites it, must be legit! Oh, please. If you find [something at fault with the poll](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2012/04/18/fox-news-poll-most-think-voter-id-laws-are-necessary/), let’s see it. **Tao** : Come back when you can debate civilly. I really don’t have time to engage with that kind of nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/477 "2012-06-03T20:34:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Tao** : Come back when you can debate civilly. I really don’t have time to engage with that kind of nonsense. You are arguing for something as evil, and unAmerican as stripping innocent Americans of their vote. My case is already made. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/478 "2012-06-03T21:11:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You’re \*adorable \*when you pretend to be stupid, and you just can’t quite grasp what I’m saying. Puppies and kittens must line up for post-graduate work in cute. It would take you fewer keystrokes to plainly and clearly answer the question than typing all the shit you type. I do not believe you’re trying for clarity at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/479 "2012-06-03T21:12:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did you read the part about “reports Fox News”? > > And this: > > Find that one a bit hard to swallow, but hey! _Fox News_ says it, \*\*John Mace \*\*cites it, must be legit! What’s your source, then? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/480 "2012-06-03T21:14:02Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > The people includes Americans stripped of their vote. How can the law be reflective of the people if some are prevented from voting? > > That’s the problem. You are arguing against democratic principles, because Republicans can’t stand its results. > > In a mind blowingly dishonest example of double think, you’re trying to claim preventing Americans from voting is democratic. There’s nothing undemocratic about making sure that only citizens cast votes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=25)