# Voter ID Laws: Necessary to combat rampant fraud or subtle subjugation of the Democratic demographic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971 "2012-05-24T17:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/481 "2012-06-03T21:15:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s your source, then? I would quote the same results from Rasmussen, but I’m sure that would be hand-waved away, too. At any rate, the idea that the reason voter ID laws pass is because of voter suppression is nonsense. You’d have to be talking about suppression on a massive scale for that to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/482 "2012-06-03T21:17:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s nothing undemocratic about making sure that only citizens cast votes. By any means necessary? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/483 "2012-06-03T21:23:42Z")
Its not about “stripping” those rights, **Ta** o, is much more subtle than that. Its about making it more _difficul_t, hence _less likely_, hence a reduction in the number of people voting Dem. Its not smallpox, its just malaria. The beauty part is that they get to run this game under a flag of civic purity, that their sole concern is political virtue. And its a desperate emergency, that requires immediate action! Before the next election, absolutely essential, because of the dreadful crisis in the confidence of the electorate! (I swear, I am not making this up! They say stuff like that, look you right in the eye and say it!) And anyone who wants to believe it is welcome to. Why do you think they follow up stuff like this with new restrictions on voter registration, as witness the previously cited case of the League of Women Voters and Florida? Is that one of those astonishing coincidences? Or the pell-mell rush there to “purge” the voter rolls? Once is accident, twice, coincidence, but three times is Republicans. And a nakedly cynical ploy to enhance their political power, by any means they can get away with. And they will get a way with it, they already have, because they have a bright shining lie as their shield. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/484 "2012-06-03T21:26:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I would quote the same results from Rasmussen… Oh. Well, why didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/485 "2012-06-03T21:29:50Z")
Oh, and Rassmussen? [http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/) **Rasmussen Polls Were Biased and Inaccurate; Quinnipiac, SurveyUSA Performed Strongly** ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/486 "2012-06-03T21:31:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh. Well, why didn’t you? Because there was nothing wrong with the Fox poll, which was done in conjunction with an independent research company. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/487 "2012-06-03T21:36:44Z")
Yours is a charming innocence that I would not want to see sullied. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/488 "2012-06-03T21:38:46Z")
**elucudator** : Is it your contention that voter ID laws are more unpopular than not? If so, on what do you base that? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/489 "2012-06-03T21:47:09Z")
The question is extraneous. Its changing the subject. What’s wrong is wrong, popularity doesn’t enter into it. Its not wrong to insist on pristine voter rolls. its wrong to use that as an excuse to declare an emergency and enact new regulations that will favor one party over another. I’ve said this about ten times, and keep getting demands to answer for arguments I am not making. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/490 "2012-06-03T22:01:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The question is extraneous. Its changing the subject. What’s wrong is wrong, popularity doesn’t enter into it. Its not wrong to insist on pristine voter rolls. its wrong to use that as an excuse to declare an emergency and enact new regulations that will favor one party over another. I’ve said this about ten times, and keep getting demands to answer for arguments I am not making. Well, other people were discussing the relative popularity of such laws, so I’m not sure why you felt the need to insert yourself into that side discussion, especially on the side arguing contrary to fact. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/491 "2012-06-03T22:14:31Z")
Maybe I’m just surprised, **John** , never thought I’d see the day you’d cite \*Fox News \*with a straight face. So, I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/492 "2012-06-03T22:41:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, other people were discussing the relative popularity of such laws, so I’m not sure why you felt the need to insert yourself into that side discussion, especially on the side arguing contrary to fact. Ahh I see now. You think we’re arguing about popularity. We’re arguing about whether an election is the will of the people if some of the people, are prevented from voicing their will through poll tax level hardship in getting to the ballet. **elucidator** made a good point, about how they’re not specifically taking the vote away, just making it difficult such that some can’t or won’t be able to do it. Historic poll taxes, and literacy tests claimed just as good of ends, but look at their motivations and results. Look at their claimed support. The vote is scared, if anything can be called sacred. Without it our tools based on blood and suffering. We have one state cited as even attempting to help people get ID to vote. If this isn’t a naked attack on democracy, why not helping more people vote? Why stack the deck? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/493 "2012-06-03T22:47:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Maybe I’m just surprised, **John** , never thought I’d see the day you’d cite \*Fox News \*with a straight face. So, I was wrong. Well, it’s not like losing your virginity or anything, so I think you’ll be OK. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/494 "2012-06-03T23:03:43Z")
It not my virginity, **John**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/495 "2012-06-03T23:17:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It not my virginity, **John**. Well, I didn’t actually go to the FOXNews web site-- my cite was from Politico. But if I ever feel my virginity has been stripped from me by FOX, I hear that by watching Rachel Maddow’s show every day for a month, one can get it back. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/496 "2012-06-03T23:22:40Z")
A swan’s neck, a girlish giggle and a steel trap mind, what’s not to love? You could do worse. Most likely have. In comparison, Sean Hannity is as ugly as a pit bulls asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/497 "2012-06-04T00:49:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The question is extraneous. Its changing the subject. What’s wrong is wrong, popularity doesn’t enter into it. Its not wrong to insist on pristine voter rolls. its wrong to use that as an excuse to declare an emergency and enact new regulations that will favor one party over another. I’ve said this about ten times, and keep getting demands to answer for arguments I am not making. When it was Fox News, the problem was that the data was wrong. Now that the data is replicated by other organizations, it turns out that the whole question is extraneous. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/498 "2012-06-04T14:34:29Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > However rather than talk about what a stupid thing you posted, I’ll assume you must have taken a sharp blow to the head, and aren’t thinking straight. Please go get medical attention for your concussion. You have been warned many times about posting insulting comments like this. I’m giving you another formal warning here. You should know by now that this type of post belongs in the Pit and no other SDMB forum. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/499 "2012-06-04T15:33:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When it was Fox News, the problem was that the data was wrong. > > Now that the data is replicated by other organizations, it turns out that the whole question is extraneous. > > Got it. The problem with Fox News is they lie. And pious protestations of liberal hypocrisy from someone who knowingly posts lies is of less consequence than a butterfly’s fart. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/500 "2012-06-04T15:37:09Z")
[http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/gov-rick-scott-florida-is-absolutely-not-targeting-minorities-in/1233277](http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/gov-rick-scott-florida-is-absolutely-not-targeting-minorities-in/1233277) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=26)