# Voter ID Laws: Necessary to combat rampant fraud or subtle subjugation of the Democratic demographic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971 "2012-05-24T17:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/521 "2012-06-04T18:54:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because they haven’t. Sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/522 "2012-06-04T18:57:30Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Fox News and Rasmussen polls are not to be trusted because they are pathologically misleading. Fox News in particular has a history of misleading when it comes to the voter ID laws. How about Harris Interactive? How about Pew Research? How about Gallup? Which organization, in your opinion, produces valid polls? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/523 "2012-06-04T19:04:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Leftish site warning, cootie prevention protocols advised for the rightarded… There’s already enough snark going around in this thread. Please omit terms like “rightard” from your future posts. Now go forth and sin no more. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/524 "2012-06-04T19:06:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about Harris Interactive? How about Pew Research? How about Gallup? > > Which organization, in your opinion, produces valid polls? Any one of those organizations may have, at some point in their existence, produced a poll of questionable construction or dubious statistical import. But I don’t believe they have a reputation for such. I’ve encountered enough deceiving polls originating from Rasmussen that they’ve earned my presumption of distrust. I disregard anything Fox News says because you’d have to be a fool to unequivocally swallow anything they claim, and I’ve got better things to do than research everything they say to find out whether they’re bullshitting me or not. I just assume they are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/525 "2012-06-04T19:19:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s already enough snark going around in this thread. Please omit terms like “rightard” from your future posts. Now go forth and sin no more. I have used precisely the same term for years, without a peep from anybody. The Google search device offered in the ATMB is proof of this claim. > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=site:boards.straightdope.com%20%22elucidator%22%20%2B%20%22rightard%22)** Is this a new ruling? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/526 "2012-06-04T19:22:37Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Any one of those organizations may have, at some point in their existence, produced a poll of questionable construction or dubious statistical import. But I don’t believe they have a reputation for such. I’ve encountered enough deceiving polls originating from Rasmussen that they’ve earned my presumption of distrust. > > I disregard anything Fox News says because you’d have to be a fool to unequivocally swallow anything they claim, and I’ve got better things to do than research everything they say to find out whether they’re bullshitting me or not. I just assume they are. So as a general principle, you’re fine with a poll from Harris or Gallup showing majority support for voter ID laws? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/527 "2012-06-04T19:30:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So as a general principle, you’re fine with a poll from Harris or Gallup showing majority support for voter ID laws? Depends on how it’s constructed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/528 "2012-06-04T19:34:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have used precisely the same term for years, without a peep from anybody. The Google search device offered in the ATMB is proof of this claim. > > [Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boards.straightdope.com%20%22elucidator%22%20+%20%22rightard%22) > > Is this a new ruling? Peep. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/529 "2012-06-04T19:35:10Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Depends on how it’s constructed. In your view, does the poll have to claim that legitimate voters are being disenfranchised in order to be valid? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/530 "2012-06-04T19:38:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In your view, does the poll have to claim that legitimate voters are being disenfranchised in order to be valid? Just post the poll you think is a gotcha and we will discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/531 "2012-06-04T19:54:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Just post the poll you think is a gotcha and we will discuss it. Yes, I know how that will go. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/532 "2012-06-04T19:57:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In your view, does the poll have to claim that legitimate voters are being disenfranchised in order to be valid? C’mon, quit playing chicken with us. Either put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/533 "2012-06-04T20:02:30Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > C’mon, quit playing chicken with us. Either put up or shut up. Why is that burden mine? Why can’t I say to you, as I have, “In your view, does the poll have to claim that legitimate voters are being disenfranchised in order to be valid?” and then demand that you put up an answer, or shut up about the invalid polls supposedly crafted by Rasmussen? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/534 "2012-06-04T20:08:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I know how that will go. And you wonder why people don’t play your games any more? Are you not tired of laying obvious traps that snare only the unwary? How is that satisfying for you? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/535 "2012-06-04T20:09:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is that burden mine? You’re the one claiming Americans support voter ID laws, not me. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/536 "2012-06-04T20:20:05Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > You’re the one claiming Americans support voter ID laws, not me. [http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20120604\_Protect\_votes\_of\_all\_citizens.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20120604_Protect_votes_of_all_citizens.html) 87% sounds like support to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/537 "2012-06-04T20:20:55Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > You’re the one claiming Americans support voter ID laws, not me. True. OK, let’s try. Here’s a discussion of a Tennessee poll [conducted by Middle State Tennessee University.](http://tnreport.com/blog/2012/02/29/mtsu-poll-santorum-romney-lead-in-tn-voter-id-law-has-82-support/) > [@](#): > > Additionally, the poll found that support is practically nonexistent for repealing a new state law that requires voters to present a photo ID when voting with 82 percent of state residents considering the new law “a good idea that should be kept in place.” Only 11 percent consider the law “a bad idea that should be done away with,” and the rest aren’t sure. What’s wrong with it? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/538 "2012-06-04T20:36:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True. > > OK, let’s try. Here’s a discussion of a Tennessee poll [conducted by Middle State Tennessee University.](http://tnreport.com/blog/2012/02/29/mtsu-poll-santorum-romney-lead-in-tn-voter-id-law-has-82-support/) > > What’s wrong with it? I don’t know how representative 546 people from Tennessee are of Americans as a whole, but the professor who conducted the poll identified a possible problem: > [@](#): > > “These percentages could reverse overnight if the Election Day problems that opponents of the law are predicting materialize,” Dr. Ken Blake, MTSU associate professor of journalism and director of the MTSU Poll, said. “But with so many Tennesseans expressing support and so few undecided, these attitudes appear unlikely to change unless there’s a pretty compelling turn of events or shift in the debate’s frame.” In other words, they may not have thought about this fully, and their feelings may be influenced by the way the issue has been presented to them. Now if all you’ve been hearing is that there’s an epidemic of illegally cast votes, and then you find out that these laws can result in eligible voters being turned away at the polls, wouldn’t that be the type of information that might change attitudes? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/539 "2012-06-04T20:38:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Have you ever voted? > > Of course poll attendants check addresses. Every year. I walk up, give them my name, which they verify against a list of names, I sign, or they sign (can’t remember) and that’s that. Never once have they checked an address. (Pennsylvania) Since you seem sure (and derisive), do you happen to have a cite that shows that checking your address is part of voting? Prior to this years’ ID laws, of course. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/540 "2012-06-04T20:39:59Z")
Of course Americans support such laws. The proper question is would they support using such laws as an excuse to give a particular political party an electoral advantage. Americans oppose voter fraud? Yes, they also are in favor of puppies. Doesn’t mean they support rabies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=28)