# Voter ID Laws: Necessary to combat rampant fraud or subtle subjugation of the Democratic demographic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971 "2012-05-24T17:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/641 "2012-06-07T19:50:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What do you suggest for elderly voters who were [never issued a birth certificate](http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=671), because they were born at home? I suggest following their state’s procedures for the situation. Which state’s laws do you imagine makes this challenge insurmountable? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/642 "2012-06-07T19:51:06Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Wow. Really? I mean seriously. Come on! This is a joke right? I keep a handgun next to the bed. Why is that so impossible to imagine? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/643 "2012-06-07T19:51:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I suggest following their state’s procedures for the situation. > > Which state’s laws do you imagine makes this challenge insurmountable? The state and federal laws requiring a birth certificate to get a driver’s license or a passport. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/644 "2012-06-07T19:59:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Surprisingly, I’m always surprised by these debates. I’m amazed that people who claim to so value the constitutionally guaranteed right to vote, feel that taking the slightest, teensy-weeniest step to ensure that only those eligible to vote are doing so is some GREAT IMPOSITION! If the franchise is so important, what’s the big deal about voter ID laws? Especially when they take steps to accommodate the old and infirm? > > Voter ID laws protect the franchise and ensure that the vote the you cast is not invalidated by an invalid one. So, stop your whining, wouldya. Well, OK, we’ll try this just one more time, what the heck, maybe it will sink in. The objection is not to efforts to ensure the validity of the voter rolls. The objection is to using this as an excuse to hinder the turnout of a particular political party for partisan gain. You did read the thread, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/645 "2012-06-07T20:24:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I keep a handgun next to the bed. Why is that so impossible to imagine? What’s remarkable is that someone could read this thread and come away with the idea that I was making some kind of commentary on the reality of security systems. Just to be clear, someone else offered a poor analogy between the topic being discussed and a home security system. I was making corrections so that the analogy matched the parameters of the discussion better. I don’t actually believe that in reality, the installers walk out of the house saying that your security system will fail to detect burglars. Further, my opinions on security systems and guns under beds in reality are not relevant to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/646 "2012-06-07T20:30:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I keep a handgun next to the bed. Why is that so impossible to imagine? I am not surprised. I bet you lock and bolt the doors when you are at home too. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/647 "2012-06-07T20:55:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What do you suggest for elderly voters who were [never issued a birth certificate](http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=671), because they were born at home? Actually most elderly people have already gone though this to qualify for social security. In my father’s case he used the 1920 census information to get a delayed birth certificate. For most people getting their social security check is a lot more important than voting. [http://www.census.gov/foia/age\_search\_and\_birth\_records/birth\_records.html](http://www.census.gov/foia/age_search_and_birth_records/birth_records.html) > [@](#): > > where the births occurred. Addresses for each state’s vital statistics office may be obtained from the National Center for Health Statistics or check your local telephone directory. > > When applying for social security or a driver’s license, the individual who does not have a birth certificate must prove that none exists from the state where he or she was born. Therefore, the individual should obtain a statement to that effect from the vital statistics office and use it in conjunction with other documents (such as a census transcript). However, a census transcript is an acceptable piece of evidence when applying for a delayed birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/648 "2012-06-07T21:11:33Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Actually most elderly people have already gone though this to qualify for social security. In my father’s case he used the 1920 census information to get a delayed birth certificate. For most people getting their social security check is a lot more important than voting. Then there should be no problem in permitting them to use identification they already have, such as their Medicare card. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/649 "2012-06-07T21:32:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What’s remarkable is that someone could read this thread and come away with the idea that I was making some kind of commentary on the reality of security systems. > > Just to be clear, someone else offered a poor analogy between the topic being discussed and a home security system. I was making corrections so that the analogy matched the parameters of the discussion better. > > I don’t actually believe that in reality, the installers walk out of the house saying that your security system will fail to detect burglars. Further, my opinions on security systems and guns under beds in reality are not relevant to the thread. I know they weren’t relevant, which is why I found them funny ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/650 "2012-06-07T21:39:06Z")
Well, then, if the problems are minor, they are easily fixed, yeah? See any such effort? See any proviso in these laws for outreach, so that people who have any sort of new problem as a result of these laws, their issues are addressed? How about a hotline? A number you can call if you think you may have a problem, and they check you out, and if you’re legit, you have a photo id in your hand before the next election. Can’t be too expensive, you guys swear there’s no real problem, Anybody see any such thing being offered? No, what you see is like Texas and Florida, where extra restrictions are placed on voter registration. Head 'em off at the pass, more or less. So we are pretty much compelled to the conclusion that they don’t want the problems fixed, that the problems are in fact the whole point of the exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/651 "2012-06-07T22:08:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I object because it disenfranchises more legal voters than illegal ones. You have no idea how many legal voters it “disenfranchises” or how many illegal ones it “disenfranchises”. So where do you get the “more” part? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/652 "2012-06-07T22:10:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then there should be no problem in permitting them to use identification they already have, such as their Medicare card. It would be no problem if only citizens had Medicare cards. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/653 "2012-06-07T22:12:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It would be no problem if only citizens had Medicare cards. So why are driver’s licenses permitted? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/654 "2012-06-07T22:16:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why are driver’s licenses permitted? For voting - because they have pictures whereas Medicare cards don’t. For registering to vote - I have no idea. Seems logical that to register to vote you should show something that proves your citizenship. Driver’s license doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/655 "2012-06-07T22:19:53Z")
Perhaps a minor glitch over “state-issued” ID? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/656 "2012-06-07T22:24:31Z")
Maybe this is one of those American Exceptionalism thingies. National ID cards are pretty standard in the developed world, but we don’t like the idea. Perhaps if we instituted State ID cards it wouldn’t be perceived as such a fascist move as when done by the feds. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/657 "2012-06-07T23:11:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Seems logical that to register to vote you should show something that proves your citizenship. Driver’s license doesn’t. Makes one wonder what the real purpose of this law is, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/658 "2012-06-07T23:50:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The state and federal laws requiring a birth certificate to get a driver’s license or a passport. There are no such laws. Every state and the federal government has options for someone with no birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/659 "2012-06-07T23:51:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am not surprised. I bet you lock and bolt the doors when you are at home too. Yes, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/660 "2012-06-08T00:47:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then there should be no problem in permitting them to use identification they already have, such as their Medicare card. Actually your premise is wrong. You aren’t required to be a U.S. citizen to receive social security. [http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a\_id/183/~/noncitizens-receiving-social-security-benefits](http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/183/~/noncitizens-receiving-social-security-benefits) It brings up an interesting point. You are supposed to keep you immigration status up to date with the SSA. That would give another database the state of Florida could check. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=34)