# Voter ID Laws: Necessary to combat rampant fraud or subtle subjugation of the Democratic demographic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971 "2012-05-24T17:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/721 "2012-06-11T13:11:05Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real\_id\_act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_id_act) > > Do you actually live in the United States? You don’t seem to know much about it. What is this supposed to show in respect to the above quote? The words “university,” “school,” or "Student don’t even appear in that article. It pertains to procedural standards for issuing state IDs and drivers’ licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/722 "2012-06-11T13:26:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Are you suggesting a state university doesn’t have the ability to accurately identify their students? I don’t know when you last went to college, but it’s little different these days, post Virginia Tech. On-campus security is held in much higher importance today. Admittedly, when I was an undergrad, Reagan was in the White House and pop music stations were playing “I Love a Rainy Night.” So educate me. How, exactly, does a state university accurately ensure that students are who they say they are? I’m serious – if their procedures are comparable to those for the state issuing drivers’ licenses, then I’d absolutely support that as an alternate ID. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/723 "2012-06-11T15:34:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Admittedly, when I was an undergrad, Reagan was in the White House and pop music stations were playing “I Love a Rainy Night.” > > So educate me. How, exactly, does a state university accurately ensure that students are who they say they are? > > I’m serious – if their procedures are comparable to those for the state issuing drivers’ licenses, then I’d absolutely support that as an alternate ID. If you had tried to click on the link on Real ID you would realize how ridiculous your assertion is. Florida has already gone to the REAL ID. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/724 "2012-06-11T15:49:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We know what it **means.** Prove it **exists.** [http://bloomingtonwilpf.org/localagenda/deliverthevote.pdf](http://bloomingtonwilpf.org/localagenda/deliverthevote.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/725 "2012-06-11T16:14:55Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [http://bloomingtonwilpf.org/localagenda/deliverthevote.pdf](http://bloomingtonwilpf.org/localagenda/deliverthevote.pdf) On a quick skim, I see no mention there of “floaters” more recent than the 19th Century. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/726 "2012-06-11T16:22:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, no. I concede, you never complained, wailed, or gnashed. I made that up. you never said a damn negative thing about Massachusetts’ changing their law with regards to appointment of senators. > > Which was really my point. > **[Senator Kirk and the Constitutionality of Expedient Law Switching](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=535056)** > > The title of this OP is shamelessly stolen from the blog of Professor Michael Dorf of Cornell University’s School of Law. As is the subject. Basically, Prof. Dorf lays out the sequence of events in Massachusetts from 2004 to now: fearful of the... > [@](#): > > …The Pubbies bluffed, and got called. They refused any accomodation to the facts, and dared the Dems to commit a sordid and partisan act. The Dems called… I believe that the word “sordid” are widely accepted to be a “negative thing”. Your groveling apology is presumed, and gracefully accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/727 "2012-06-11T17:14:18Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you had tried to click on the link on Real ID you would realize how ridiculous your assertion is. Florida has already gone to the REAL ID. I have clicked on the link and still have no idea what you mean to show by it. Instead of saying, “Here my answer is in this link,” how about you actually frame your argument. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/728 "2012-06-11T17:39:04Z")
All of these things could be dealt with. Students of appropriate age should have access to voting, the only question should be how. Citizens with documentation issues should have access to voting, the only question is how. Are we given to believe that no such solution exists that does not have a partisan edge to it? These things cannot be done without giving one party an unwarranted and unfair advantage in elections? See any such effort? On the contrary, what you see in Florida and Texas is Republicans being pro-active, tightening the procedures for voter registration so that groups like the League of Women Voters are stymied. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/729 "2012-06-11T17:43:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > See any such effort? On the contrary, what you see in Florida and Texas is Republicans being pro-active, tightening the procedures for voter registration so that groups like the League of Women Voters are stymied. I would have been happy if they just did some kind of phase-in period. For instance, during this general election, tell everyone voting that come next election, an ID would be required. That would probably make 90% of the people that vote aware of the new restriction. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/730 "2012-06-11T17:55:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [Senator Kirk and the Constitutionality of Expedient Law Switching - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=535056) > > I believe that the word “sordid” are widely accepted to be a “negative thing”. Your groveling apology is presumed, and gracefully accepted. Here’s your entire post. This post is supposed to be you saying that the Democrats did something negative? > [@Senator Kirk and the Constitutionality of Expedient Law Switching](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-kirk-and-the-constitutionality-of-expedient-law-switching/512967/12): > > I’m a big fan of moral parity, the balancing of the ying-yang, karma. When the Pubbies have power (as recently demonstrated), they behave with sublime indifference to any such civic considerations, they grasp for power by means legitimate, illegitimate, and downright illegal. > > Balance. If the Dems run totally roughshod over the Pubbies, ride 'em and spank 'em for a couple of years, three maybe, then the balance may be restored. > > The Pubbies bluffed, and got called. They refused any accomodation to the facts, and dared the Dems to commit a sordid and partisan act. The Dems called, they rake in the pot and now the Pubbies play the only card they got: they blubber the tears crockidilian of the dreadful display of corruption and immorality, the little drops splashing on their freshly-starched communion dress. > > C’mon. Who’s kidding who, here? > > The point of such legal formalities is to protect the will of the people, no? Does anyone seriously doubt that the will of the people of Massachussets is to have a Dem take Kennedy’s seat? > > If an action be perfectly legal and thwarts the will of the people, it is not legitimate. By the same token, if an action manifests that will, it carries a legitimacy. The Pubbies could have avoided this outcome by shrugging and accepting the inevitable, maybe pick up a small bargaining chip, maybe win Miss Congeniality, something like that. > > But they made a fight out of it hoping for just this result, perhaps in their mind this balances out trying to corrupt the Justice Dept, I dunno. But now they get to piss and moan, bitch and perform about this travesty yadda-blah, yadda-blah… > > Feh! as they say in Lubbock. As God said to Noah, in Bill Cosby’s telling of it… “Riiiiight…” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/731 "2012-06-11T18:18:16Z")
In 1980, before Chicago required an ID of any kind, I found out that both myself and my brother had already voted. He didn’t live in Chicago and I was pretty sure I had been at work all day. In 2010, when my youngest didn’t return home to vote, I found out that she had been allowed to vote in the Wisconsin election because she had a Wisconsin college ID. She could have voted in both Illinois and Wisconsin if she chose to. I wonder how often THAT happens. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/732 "2012-06-11T18:42:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > In 1980, before Chicago required an ID of any kind, I found out that both myself and my brother had already voted. He didn’t live in Chicago and I was pretty sure I had been at work all day. > > In 2010, when my youngest didn’t return home to vote, I found out that she had been allowed to vote in the Wisconsin election because she had a Wisconsin college ID. She could have voted in both Illinois and Wisconsin if she chose to. > > I wonder how often THAT happens. My first thought is, why don’t they videotape people entering the polling place? That way if this were to happen, you can look and see who voted in your place. But I suppose some people would have an issue with that due to potential for abuse. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/733 "2012-06-11T18:43:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > On a quick skim, I see no mention there of “floaters” more recent than the 19th Century. You didn’t ask for a recent reference. If you have a reference that floating has ceased then you can provide the cite. I provided what I was asked. Since we had major voter fraud in 97 in Miami, then your assertions that voter fraud has ceased to be a problem is already busted. You need to explain why floaters can be prevented without votor ID. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/734 "2012-06-11T18:48:28Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you have a reference that floating has ceased then you can provide the cite. [This link has what you need.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/ha __ha__ you __asked__ to __prove__ a__negative) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/735 "2012-06-11T18:55:32Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > I have clicked on the link and still have no idea what you mean to show by it. Instead of saying, “Here my answer is in this link,” how about you actually frame your argument. The poster said that university id is just as good as a state driver’s license as id. I pointed to a link to the FEDERAL standards for driver licenses and suggested she provide documentation that university ids are actually equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/736 "2012-06-11T19:00:37Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > My first thought is, why don’t they videotape people entering the polling place? That way if this were to happen, you can look and see who voted in your place. But I suppose some people would have an issue with that due to potential for abuse. Good grief. Videotaping people entering a polling place! I can hear the roar of people claiming voter intimidation. How Dare You Videotape Me! I think it would actually be legal, depending on the laws where you live, if they didn’t point the camera lens at the actual voting machines but torches and pitchfork sales would skyrocket. I believe there should be a “free” voter ID w/picture issued by the State that can ONLY be used to verify who the voter is, or your drivers license, or another State issued ID that includes a picture. That solves the issue of having an ID and the issue of charging someone a fee for being able to vote. Voting is important enough to warrent this. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/737 "2012-06-11T19:10:04Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The poster said that university id is just as good as a state driver’s license as id. I pointed to a link to the FEDERAL standards for driver licenses and suggested she provide documentation that university ids are actually equivalent. But these guidelines only seem to be for State ID and Driver’s licenses. There’s a whole host of IDs that are excepted that aren’t covered by the Real ID act, such as military ID, passport, or ID issued by a local county or municipality. So I’m not sure what you’re driving at. And as a matter of fact, it seems my home state, PA, will accept student ID as long as it’s from a state school and has a expiration date on it. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/738 "2012-06-11T19:16:06Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Good grief. Videotaping people entering a polling place! I can hear the roar of people claiming voter intimidation. How Dare You Videotape Me! > > I think it would actually be legal, depending on the laws where you live, if they didn’t point the camera lens at the actual voting machines but torches and pitchfork sales would skyrocket. > > I believe there should be a “free” voter ID w/picture issued by the State that can ONLY be used to verify who the voter is, or your drivers license, or another State issued ID that includes a picture. That solves the issue of having an ID and the issue of charging someone a fee for being able to vote. > > Voting is important enough to warrent this. But in addition to the front-end work of giving everyone an ID, there would be a lot of back-end work going forward updating and reissuing IDs. Sounds expensive. What if instead of ID, you were made to type your SS into a terminal to gain access to the voting booth? Separate systems would protect the integrity of your vote. And if an alert comes up that your SS has already been used, it can be settled right there with the proper ID. Since we already have a database of SS numbers, seems like it would be minimal work setting up this system. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/739 "2012-06-11T19:19:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s your entire post. This post is supposed to be you saying that the Democrats did something negative? > > As God said to Noah, in Bill Cosby’s telling of it… “Riiiiight…” Unless “sordid” means something different than what the dictionary says it means, then I said the Democrats did something negative. Which directly contradicts your statement. Its really quite simple. If you have a different definition of “sordid” than the rest of us, perhaps you will share? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971/740 "2012-06-11T19:26:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Unless “sordid” means something different than what the dictionary says it means, then I said the Democrats did something negative. Which directly contradicts your statement. Its really quite simple. > > If you have a different definition of “sordid” than the rest of us, perhaps you will share? No, no – although the word itself does mean something negative, the entire post does not. You actually never even said, directly, that the Democrats did something sordid. You said the Republicans dared the Democrats to do something sordid, and the Democrats “called their bluff.” The overall impression given by your post is that the Democrats did a finer thing – balanced the scales, kept karma where it should be. Of course, the advantage you gain by this overly flowery, rhetorical flourishes, laced heavily with sarcasm, is that you can come back to a paragraph like this and claim it means any damn thing you like. But the fact remains that this paragraph, read fairly and fully, does not cast the Democrats in a negative light. Want to use this post as a poll subject in IMHO? We’ll post it as written, and ask readers to vote on whether it shows Democrats, Republicans, both, or neither, in a negative light. Care to predict how that voting will go? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voter-id-laws-necessary-to-combat-rampant-fraud-or-subtle-subjugation-of-the-democratic-demographic/622971.md?page=38)