# Voters born in the '90s need to get a clue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423 "2016-09-20T07:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/121 "2016-09-21T12:54:58Z")
> [@DonLogan](#): > > OK, so you didn’t get your wish. Now what? He still might. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/122 "2016-09-21T14:53:18Z")
> [@DonLogan](#): > > OK, so you didn’t get your wish. Now what? What do you mean, now what? It’s not like it matters how I vote; if it comes down to NM Clinton is already in major trouble and both House and Senate are lost for the Democrats. I’m just of the opinion that haranguing is not going to work, especially with those who don’t like either candidate. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/123 "2016-09-21T14:55:24Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s sad that someone so monumentally ineloquent could become (be elected, presumably?] president of anything of importance. > > This really gives me the shits. You see the same attitude with people who say “I’m not going to vote because there are no candidates I like”. There’s always a candidate who is a bit more (and/or a candidate a bit less) like your ideal. So vote for the former or against the latter. If you don’t you are the very definition of a special snowflake, **who can only see the world as something that should revolve around you.** …which is a really stupid way to view the world. Everyone knows it revolves around ME. So vote for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/124 "2016-09-21T15:14:22Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I already explained this, as you must well know, despite this faux “innocent question”. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Faux, huh? No, it’s just that your explanation is nonsense. Twentysomethings should know better than boomers? Nonsense. ^^^ echoing this, to a degree. [del]We[/del] My fellow boomers ABSOLUTELY should have known better than to let GWB, or any Republican, into the Oval Office. The party gave us GHWB, Reagan, and freaking RICHARD M NIXON, ferfuckssake. Forget about _“Why should I vote FOR the Democrat?”_ That’s puerile and stupid. The answer is _“To keep the REPUBLICAN out of the White House!”_ That is enough good to justify it. You might as well ask _“Why should I eat this bag of Chili-cheese Fritos instead of this spoonful of strychnine?”_ I shouldn’t have to prove that Chili-cheese Fritos are GOOD for you to persuade you to not poison yourself. And in this case, to not poison ME, along with yourself. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/125 "2016-09-21T15:28:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You’ve never played team sports, have you? If I’m a quarterback and my left tackle decides to take a play off, I’m going to be mad at _him_, not at the defensive lineman from the opposing team who knocked the stuffing out of me. An apt concern if we were playing football (although why should we be? It’s a stupid game. But I digress). But we’re playing Barn-Raising. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/126 "2016-09-21T15:32:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And who would enact much of the agenda they support. > And who is not the single most dangerous mainstream political candidate in… I want to say the last century. > And who is a legitimate liberal, and not a hardline conservative blowhard. > And who would prevent the achievements of the last 8 years from slipping away. > And who is not dangerously incompetent > And who actually stands a goddamn chance of winning against the former. > > People need to stop framing this as though, “You can’t tell _us_ how to vote, _Dad_!” was somehow a rational or reasonable response. It’s not. We’re not asking these people to vote for some impossible candidate. We’re asking for some basic self-interest combined with a wee bit of fucking sense. If there were no third parties, Clinton would unarguably and without any possible counterargument be a better candidate for these people than Trump. Third parties have absolutely no chance in hell of winning, so we might as well not have them. At best, these people are terminally deluded about the chances of their pet candidate (who in one case isn’t even on the ballot in every fucking state!) of winning; at worst, they are willing to cast a “protest vote” that could potentially lead to Donald “why don’t we give US treasury bonds a haircut” Trump becoming president - _and they understand how bad that would be_. > > At worst, idiots. > At best, complete fucking assholes. > [@octopus](#): > > Such rage. And you wonder why people are turned off to your message. :dubious: The only line that’s not objectively, inarguably factual is the one about her being a legitimate liberal. The half about her not being a hardline conservative blowhard is correct, though. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/127 "2016-09-21T15:43:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Maximum age for voter rights is a pretty damn nutty idea. > [@septimus](#): > > I suppose there are drawbacks to my proposal — and certainly passage is unlikely! — but is “pretty damn nutty idea” your idea of an intelligent rebuttal? I think maybe he wasn’t going for “rebuttal” so much as “dismissal”… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/128 "2016-09-21T15:46:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > An apt concern if we were playing football (although why should we be? It’s a stupid game. But I digress). But we’re playing Barn-Raising. So in your analogy, the Republicans are gravity? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/129 "2016-09-21T18:48:17Z")
The problem with the argument of ‘it will be a catastrophe that is your fault if you don’t vote for the PartyA and the PartyB win!’ is that the same people who feel entitled to every not-diehard Party vote have made it in every single election since I was a kid hearing about Reagan vs Mondale. Perot vs Bush vs Clinton got a lot of heat from the right, and Nader vs Bush vs Gore got a lot from the left, and yet we survived all of those elections without things blowing up. In this particular election I think that Trump actually is actually over-the-top awful enough that I am likely to hold my nose and vote for Clinton. But if one of the moderate Republicans was running against Clinton, there is no way I would seriously consider voting for her, and yet the same people ranting about how the youth are betraying the team here would still be ranting about it. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/130 "2016-09-21T19:20:23Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > …and yet we survived all of those elections without things blowing up. Many people didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/131 "2016-09-21T20:04:20Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Many people didn’t. Yes, people die under both Democratic and Republican presidents. And would under a less moderate president of either major party, or a third party president. But it’s certainly arguable that fewer people would end up blown up under someone who wasn’t either a D or R, so saying ‘people might die’ doesn’t really support ‘so you must vote for this candidate who will support the war on certain drugs and the prison-industrial complex, overseas military adventures and the military-industrial complex, wall street and lack of social welfare systems, and so on’. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/132 "2016-09-21T20:11:48Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Yes, people die under both Democratic and Republican presidents. And would under a less moderate president of either major party, or a third party president. But it’s certainly arguable that fewer people would end up blown up under someone who wasn’t either a D or R, so saying ‘people might die’ doesn’t really support ‘so you must vote for this candidate who will support the war on certain drugs and the prison-industrial complex, overseas military adventures and the military-industrial complex, wall street and lack of social welfare systems, and so on’. It’s also arguable that fewer people would die under a hyperintelligent omnipotent benevolent AI that controlled all society only to the extent that it prevented violence and maximized access to vital resources for everyone. But I don’t see a clear path to that happening any time soon. Until that clear path becomes available, I’m not going to base all my actions around achieving that goal; instead, I’m going to go for the best, or least worst, option at each juncture. There may be an analogy in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/133 "2016-09-21T20:19:02Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > … and yet we survived all of those elections without things blowing up. > > In this particular election I think that Trump actually is actually over-the-top awful enough that I am likely to hold my nose and vote for Clinton. But if one of the moderate Republicans was running against Clinton, there is no way I would seriously consider voting for her, and yet the same people ranting about how the youth are betraying the team here would still be ranting about it. A truck driven by a maniac is careening down the road aimed at babies at play. Observers are screaming for help to get the babies out of the way in time. _You complain_, on the basis that, _in your opinion_ the voices would be just as shrill if, instead of a careening truck, the threat were a sedate bicycle rider. :smack: Does not compute. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/134 "2016-09-21T21:32:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If Hillary Clinton loses the election, which she still probably won’t, one perceived “screw-up” will be having nominated her. > > You said she was electable and Bernie wasn’t. I think that probably either was electable or neither was. But Bernie was probably more electable than she, in part because _he hasn’t been tarred as having murdered an ambassador._ That is weak sauce compared to all the material from the '80s that Republicans were just licking their chops over being able to dish up. And you don’t seem to understand that brand-new info (brand-new, that is, to the vast majority of voters) in campaign attacks is more effective than stuff Republicans have been screeching about for years. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Hillary Clinton has been defamed, mocked, and demonized for decades, and she thought she was going to win? Over those decades, she has had three separate points at which she rebounded from terrible approval ratings to ones that even Obama now doesn’t get close to. That is actually a great political achievement when you think about it. Everyone seems to have a weird combination of very short-term memory combined with very selective long-term memory. They only remember the periods when her ratings have been low. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Never mind that, once she wins she thinks she can work with Republicans in Congress? In the late 90s, when she was on the second of one of those three rebounds, she helped negotiate with Republicans to get SCHIP. That program has over the past 16 years insured every one of my children, including their mothers’ pregnancies, such that we paid no premiums and no co-pays. I don’t know how much that has financially benefited us in total, but it’s probably close to six figures and I don’t know what we would have done without it. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > I still think she’ll win. I think she’ll be better than Pence (assuming Trump is removed in some way quickly). And I still think, and this is no contradiction, that she’ll be hit as hard by the GOP as Obama has been, and start to feel like a millstone around the Democratic Party’s neck. They would have a field day with “Commie Bernie”. > [@CarnalK](#): > > So in your analogy, the Republicans are gravity? Heh, good question. I was going to ask where the other team comes into that barnraising analogy, but maybe that’s it. If so, then my analogy still works, adapted to the situation. If my cousin Abel and I are using a pulley to lift up a huge board to make the loft, and he lets go of the rope and it causes the board to come tumbling down and crush my legs, I am going to blame him and not gravity! > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s also arguable that fewer people would die under a hyperintelligent omnipotent benevolent AI that controlled all society only to the extent that it prevented violence and maximized access to vital resources for everyone. But I don’t see a clear path to that happening any time soon. Until that clear path becomes available, I’m not going to base all my actions around achieving that goal; instead, I’m going to go for the best, or least worst, option at each juncture. > > There may be an analogy in there somewhere. I love this! > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The party gave us GHWB, Reagan, and freaking RICHARD M NIXON, ferfuckssake. Forget about _“Why should I vote FOR the Democrat?”_ That’s puerile and stupid. The answer is _“To keep the REPUBLICAN out of the White House!”_ That is enough good to justify it. You might as well ask _“Why should I eat this bag of Chili-cheese Fritos instead of this spoonful of strychnine?”_ I shouldn’t have to prove that Chili-cheese Fritos are GOOD for you to persuade you to not poison yourself. > > And in this case, to not poison ME, along with yourself. Also love this! ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/135 "2016-09-21T23:46:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A truck driven by a maniac is careening down the road aimed at babies at play. Observers are screaming for help to get the babies out of the way in time. One truck is aimed at babies at play. Observers are screaming that I need to help the one with a big D on her chest into the driver’s seat because she’ll only hit five babies instead of ten. Also she and some of the observers are going to make a ton of money off of her being the driver. money which I and the parents of the dead babies won’t share in. Also they’re going to do it again in four years, and make the same argument. > [@](#): > > _You complain_, on the basis that, _in your opinion_ the voices would be just as shrill if, instead of a careening truck, the threat were a sedate bicycle rider. :smack: No, I _observed_ that _in actual history_ the voices have been just as shrill every election cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/136 "2016-09-21T23:57:41Z")
Here’s a thread from sixteen years ago on this board that I found with a google search where people are ranting about Nader voters, just as an example > **[Fuck you Ralph fucking Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=45591)** > > SWEET SHIT FUCK ASS DAMN WHORE ASS SHIT! Why, oh why, did he have to run? Why? WHY? Fuck yourself and die, you fucking mother fucker. I blame you. Thoroughly and totally. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/137 "2016-09-21T23:58:01Z")
[What some millennials are doing](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wizard-rock-the-vote-2016#/). This video is what I think effective persuasion looks like. There’s a bit of dog whistle in it, I admit, or at least something vaguely akin to dogwhistle. It’s pretty clearly designed to appeal to leftist millennials, and would only serve to irritate and alienate conservative millennials. I suspect that’s deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/138 "2016-09-22T00:01:22Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > One truck is aimed at babies at play. Observers are screaming that I need to help the one with a big D on her chest into the driver’s seat because she’ll only hit five babies instead of ten. Also she and some of the observers are going to make a ton of money off of her being the driver. money which I and the parents of the dead babies won’t share in. Also they’re going to do it again in four years, and make the same argument. Fine. That still five babies that will die if you let her opponent win, whom you otherwise could saved. Those five that Clinton is gonna murder in your scenario? **There’s no option that results in them living**. I don’t much care for your analogy, but even in your analogy, you better believe I’d vote to save as many babies from death as I could. The time to change the fucked-up system is between elections. If, come election time, your only choice is whether to help five babies be murdered or ten babies be murdered, go for the fives, Boo. > [@](#): > > No, I _observed_ that _in actual history_ the voices have been just as shrill every election cycle. I hate the word “shrill.” But do you genuinely think the complaints about McCain and Romney were of the same caliber as the complaints about Trump? Set that aside: do you genuinely think Trump is no more dangerous than McCain or Romney? If you don’t think that, all this business about when people were more shrill is kind of a side issue. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/139 "2016-09-22T00:22:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Fine. That still five babies that will die if you let her opponent win, whom you otherwise could saved. Those five that Clinton is gonna murder in your scenario? **There’s no option that results in them living**. This is such weird blame-shifting. You’re the one putting a baby-killing driver in the truck, not me. There are lots of options that result in them living - putting someone who won’t drive the truck into babies is certainly possible, I saw thousands of such people driving today. But because you and supporters of the baby killer want the benefits she gives you, you band together to get heavy support for the ‘less dead babies’ candidate, refuse to take blame for the babies she runs down, then insist that because you’ve got stronger support for the ‘some baby killing’ instead of ‘no baby killing’ that ‘no baby killing’ is not an option. > [@](#): > > I don’t much care for your analogy, but even in your analogy, you better believe I’d vote to save as many babies from death as I could. No, you just got done saying that you’d vote for killing some babies, not to vote to save as many as you could because you could save them all. > [@](#): > > The time to change the fucked-up system is between elections. Oh yes, because politicians really have a motive to change if you keep voting them into office. > [@](#): > > I hate the word “shrill.” But do you genuinely think the complaints about McCain and Romney were of the same caliber as the complaints about Trump? Why are you changing the subject? The complaints about third party voters were just as shrill. > [@](#): > > Set that aside: do you genuinely think Trump is no more dangerous than McCain or Romney? I don’t reanswer questions that I explicitly addressed in my first post in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423/140 "2016-09-22T01:23:50Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > This is such weird blame-shifting. You’re the one putting a baby-killing driver in the truck, not me. There’s a certain irony here. No, actually, I’m not putting the baby-killing driver in the truck. If you insist on claiming something so entirely counterfactual, there’s nothing more to be said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voters-born-in-the-90s-need-to-get-a-clue/766423.md?page=8)