# Voting by Mail in 2020: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 30, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897 "2020-04-30T14:35:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/201 "2020-09-24T13:40:14Z")
That’s idiotic. What kind of error rate can be expected during the transcription process? Why allow voters to use web-delivered ballots if they can’t be processed by machine? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/202 "2020-09-24T14:07:43Z")
# BEEP! Sorry, asking reasonable questions disqualifies you from participation in this ~~charade~~ process. Thanks for playing. Next contestant! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/203 "2020-09-24T17:12:41Z")
More Pennsylvania concerns: the deadline for the state certifying the results is Nov. 11, a mere eight days after an election that could see over a million mail ballots submitted, ballots that they aren’t permitted to begin counting until Election Day There is also a concern that the post office will not be able to postmark all the ballots received by Nov. 3 _on_ Nov. 3 nor be able to deliver those to election officials by the deadline of Nov. 6. I think the courts will ensure that the vote is reported accurately according to the rules in Pa.; it’s just that the rules themselves aren’t very conducive to being certain of accumulating all the votes cast. And the state legislature isn’t going out of its way to help alleviate the situation even a little bit. To their credit, suburban counties around Philadelphia have been gearing up and promising to work 24/7 counting every ballot received on time and that might be where those 20 Electoral votes are ultimately won. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/204 "2020-09-25T03:01:27Z")
People need to send in their absentee ballots as early as humanly possible. I’m frustrated that my wife got her MN ballot yesterday, but mine did not show up yesterday or today. Checking the website, hers and mine were supposedly mailed out the same day. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/205 "2020-09-25T08:55:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > People need to send in their absentee ballots as early as humanly possible. AND wherever possible, hand-carry your ballot to a drop-box or early live voting polling place, if either of those exist where you are! Avoid mailing via USPS if at all possible. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/206 "2020-09-25T20:55:24Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > AND wherever possible, hand-carry your ballot to a drop-box or early live voting polling place, if either of those exist where you are! Avoid mailing via USPS if at all possible. AND’ if you live in one of the 39 states or the District of Columbia with ballot tracking, track your ballot. Here in North Carolina I was able to see that my ballot has already been accepted. Had it not been a recent court ruling would have given me the opportunity to seek a remedy or vote in person. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/207 "2020-09-26T01:02:14Z")
> **[DeJoy Says Mail Sorting Machines Were Stripped For Parts And Can't Be...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/postmaster-dejoy-sorting-machines-stripped-for-parts_n_5f6d71d5c5b64deddeeb9107)** > > The postmaster general and the U.S. Postal Service argue they can't comply with a judge's order to return 700 high-speed mail processors to service. > Postmaster General [Louis DeJoy](https://www.huffpost.com/topic/louis-dejoy) told a federal court that hundreds of high-speed mail sorting machines he ordered removed cannot be returned to service because they were [stripped for parts](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/gov.uscourts.waed_.91975.83.0.pdf). > > DeJoy and the [U.S.Postal Service](https://www.huffpost.com/topic/united-states-postal-service) presented the excuse in a response filed Wednesday to a nationwide order issued by U.S. District Judge Stanley Bastian in Yakima, Washington, last week demanding the return of some 700 machines that had been taken out of service. > > “Dismantled machines ‘are generally dissembled for their usable parts, with such parts being removed to maintain or enhance other machines,’” DeJoy, a loyalist and major contributor to [President Donald Trump](https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/donald-trump)’s campaign, stated in his response. “It is therefore [not possible to return such machines to service](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/gov.uscourts.waed_.91975.83.0.pdf).” > > But witnesses reported that [many](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkyv4k/internal-usps-documents-outline-plans-to-hobble-mail-sorting) of the [expensive machines](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/politics/usps-mail-sorting-machines-photos-trnd/index.html) were quickly dismantled and tossed into dumpsters as scrap. **The injunction noted that [72% of the ripped out machines](https://www.dropbox.com/s/jq05j72ptz598ad/gov.uscourts.waed.91975.81.0_1.pdf?dl=0) were in counties [Hillary Clinton](https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/hillary-clinton) won in the 2016 presidential election.** > … My bold. Now that’s just a silly coincidence. Move along. Nuttin’ to see here. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/208 "2020-09-26T19:40:11Z")
When I was little, probably 4-5ish, everyone in my neighborhood (my world) had yard signs, and I thought that the election was done by counting them up. Might not be a bad model to revert to. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/209 "2020-09-26T22:57:51Z")
Not a very secret ballot, that. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/210 "2020-09-28T12:55:25Z")
I had previously stated that North Carolina had no provisions to either inform a voter that their ballot was unacceptable or to allow them to correct any deficiencies. This has been corrected after a lawsuit brought by the North Carolina Alliance for Retired Americans. The North Carolina State Board of Elections has agreed to allow [changes that according to the plaintiffs in the suit will enfranchise “tens of thousands” of voters](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-north-carolina-elections-raleigh-6798f202bccc5070c1649b24c77b0bd1). So, much less ugly in North Carolina on the absentee ballot front. I changed my plan from in person early voting to absentee by mail and my ballot has been accepted. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/211 "2020-09-29T15:00:10Z")
> **[New York City election officials to resend ballots after about 100,000 voters...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/29/brooklyn-absentee-envelope-election-ny/)** > > Numerous New Yorkers reported Monday that they’d received mixed-up return envelopes, which would invalidate their votes if they tried to mail them in. > This year, Brooklyn resident Kabeer Malhotra requested an absentee ballot for the first time, hoping to avoid the perils of a voting booth during the [coronavirus](https://www.washingtonpost.com/coronavirus/?itid=lk_inline_manual_2) pandemic. But when he tore open his ballot on Monday, he found an alarming error: A return envelope with someone else’s name printed on the front. > > Malhotra wasn’t alone. Numerous New Yorkers [reported Monday](https://gothamist.com/news/brooklyn-voters-receive-absentee-ballot-envelopes-wrong-voter-names-and-addresses) that they had received mixed-up return envelopes, which could invalidate their votes if they tried to mail them in. > > The mass error comes soon after New York City struggled to tally a flood of absentee ballots in June primaries, leaving some races [undecided for weeks](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/a-month-later-this-new-york-city-primary-is-still-a-train-wreck-and-a-warning-to-us-all/2020/07/25/1c19f9c4-cb68-11ea-b0e3-d55bda07d66a_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_5). As GOP critics relentlessly assail the security of mail-in voting, the latest mishap — which President Trump [highlighted in retweets](https://twitter.com/rtraister/status/1310757263418822658) Monday evening — will only add fuel to that argument, Malhotra worries. > > “The rhetoric our president is using and all the fearmongering over mail-in voting makes me worry there’s going to be so much hysteria around errors like this, that people are going to panic,” Malhotra, a 36-year-old who works in the TV and film industry, told The Washington Post. “Some people won’t know what to do.” > > It’s not clear how many New Yorkers have been affected, but advocates said the issue appeared to be widespread in Brooklyn. “I have heard from dozens of voters individually today, all concentrated in Brooklyn, that they have received return ballot envelopes that are not in their name,” Ali Najmi, a New York elections lawyer, told The Post. > > Michael Ryan, executive director of the New York City [Board of Elections,](https://gothamist.com/news/brooklyn-voters-receive-absentee-ballot-envelopes-wrong-voter-names-and-addresses)said that he learned of the error on Saturday, [Gothamist reported](https://gothamist.com/news/brooklyn-voters-receive-absentee-ballot-envelopes-wrong-voter-names-and-addresses). Ryan blamed a vendor with a contract to print and mail absentee ballots for voters in Queens and Brooklyn. > > Ryan said there is no estimate yet how many mismatched envelopes were mailed out; Gothamist reports that in all, nearly 500,000 absentee ballots have been delivered in the city, including more than 140,000 in Brooklyn. > … Something tells me there will be more of this kind of ~~shit~~ stuff as we get closer to the election. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/212 "2020-09-29T17:43:04Z")
> **[Postal Service workers quietly resist DeJoy’s changes with eye on election](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/29/usps-workers-election-mail/)** > > Many USPS employees workers see recent cost-cutting changes that have slowed mail delivery as violating the spirit, if not the letter, of that law. > This summer, as controversial new procedures at the U.S. Postal Service snarled the nation’s mail delivery and stirred fears of how the agency would handle the election, rank-and-file workers quietly began to resist. > > Mechanics in New York drew out the dismantling and removal of mail-sorting machines until their supervisor gave up on the order. In Michigan, a group of letter carriers did an end run around a supervisor’s directive to leave election mail behind, starting their routes late to sift through it. In Ohio, postal clerks culled prescriptions and benefit checks from bins of stalled mail to make sure they were delivered, while some carriers ran late items out on their own time. In Pennsylvania, some postal workers looked for any excuse — a missed turn, heavy traffic, a rowdy dog — to buy enough time to finish their daily rounds. > > “I can’t see any postal worker not bending those rules,” one Philadelphia staffer said in an interview. > > With the Postal Service expected to play a historic role in this year’s election, some of the agency’s 630,000 workers say they feel a responsibility to counteract cost-cutting changes from their new boss, Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, that they blame for the mail slowdowns. They question whether DeJoy — a top Republican fundraiser and booster of President Trump — is politicizing the institution in service to a president who has actively tried to sow distrust of mail-in voting, insisting without evidence that it will lead to massive fraud. > … _“Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night\* stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.”_ \*Nor shenanigans by the trump administration. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/213 "2020-09-29T19:20:17Z")
Who knew the Post Office was a part of the Deep State? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/214 "2020-09-30T03:47:41Z")
I’m starting to wonder if vote by mail will be as huge a factor as once thought. Between stories like the ones above and the coronavirus slowly becoming an accepted part of life that needs to be dealt with in ways other than just self-isolating, I’m beginning to think that the fears over voters who want to vote for Biden staying home out of fear of the virus aren’t going to shake out as severely as predicted. I think it might take a viral wave akin to the initial NYC one to significantly affect the numbers at this point, a month out of the election and six months into the pandemic. (On a somewhat related note, I’m also skeptical of there being significant “poll watching,” another factor cited in mail in voting numbers. I think Trump supporters actually motivated enough to do something are really a lot less than it appears. It’s a similar reason to why I don’t see widespread violence happening if Trump loses.) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/215 "2020-10-01T04:04:34Z")
But there’s already a lot of people who’ve applied for absentee ballots. In a number of states, it’s already a record far exceeding the previous high number of absentees. I don’t know if these states have a way to cancel an absentee application. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/216 "2020-10-01T05:42:27Z")
Yeah, I think I already mentioned that I requested mine before all the concerns about Trump shenanigans in response to a “blue shift” were widely aired. Now I kind of wish I had just decided to do in-person early voting, but I feel like it would be too likely to make a hash of the whole thing if I changed my mind now. So I just got it yesterday and intend to return it very soon. That NYC BOE screwup is not only bad in its own right, it is so helpful to Trump in playing into his narrative about ballot fraud, even if that’s not exactly what it is and NY is not a swing state anyway. Sigh. 🤦🏻‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/217 "2020-10-01T13:03:44Z")
Helpful 538 article here. In sum: mail-in voting will be (in some places, is) up compared to pre-COVID, but down compared to summertime primaries. Overall voting will likely be high (as expected as of a year ago, but more recently some feared it would go down). And, while anything could happen, evidence points to only sporadic voting issues (like long lines and ballot mistakes)…unless there is deliberate chaos-causing. > **[We’ve Had 56 Statewide Elections During The Pandemic. Here’s What We Learned...](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-had-56-statewide-elections-during-the-pandemic-heres-what-we-learned-from-them/)** > > The 2020 primary season finally ended last month, meaning there have now been 56 statewide elections (presidential primaries, state-level primaries and even the… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/218 "2020-10-01T19:43:54Z")
[https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/519183-texas-governor-orders-only-one-mail-ballot-drop-off-location-allowed-per](https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/519183-texas-governor-orders-only-one-mail-ballot-drop-off-location-allowed-per) > Texas Gov. [Greg Abbott](https://thehill.com/person/greg-abbott) ( R) issued a new proclamation allowing only one mail ballot drop-off location per county. > > Starting Friday, mail ballots submitted in person by eligible vote-by-mail voters will be required to be returned to a publicly designated county voting clerk’s office, a local NBC affiliate [KXAN reported.](https://www.kxan.com/news/us-politics/election/gov-abbott-issues-proclamation-allowing-just-one-mail-in-ballot-drop-off-location-per-county/) > > The proclamation allows early voters only one ballot drop-off location per county, and other drop-off satellite locations will be closed. > > Abbott’s proclamation will also require early voting clerks to let poll watchers monitor the locations and “observe any activity conducted at the early voting clerk’s office location related to the in-person delivery of a marked mail ballot.” > > “As we work to preserve Texans’ ability to vote during the COVID-19 pandemic, we must take extra care to strengthen ballot security protocols throughout the state,” Abbott said. “These enhanced security protocols will ensure greater transparency and will help stop attempts at illegal voting.” > > In Texas, mail-in voters who drop off their ballots must show a photo ID, sign a roster and deposit a sealed envelope into their designated county ballot box, the [Statesman reported.](https://www.statesman.com/news/20201001/abbott-orders-counties-to-close-multiple-ballot-dropoff-sites) > … Easy for me-- I live in the county seat. But driving to the drop box could be a loooong one for many people. WTG, Greg! [The physically largest county in Texas is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_County,_Texas) > **Brewster County** is the largest county by area in the state, over three times the size of the state of Delaware, and more than 500 square miles (1,300 km2) bigger than Connecticut. The 10 largest counties are: (BTW, there are 254 counties all together.) [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/KPQbVxh.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/A1IkpCY) [Source](http://www.texascounties.net/statistics/landarea.htm) ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/219 "2020-10-02T03:19:47Z")
What is the process to ensure a person doesnt do a mail in ballot then go later and vote in person? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/220 "2020-10-02T03:36:02Z")
Felt so good to fill out [my absentee ballot](https://twitter.com/slackerinc/status/1311869878685573121?s=21). Primarily of course to vote against Trump, but also [against Collin Peterson](https://twitter.com/slackerinc/status/1311870591423729664?s=21), who enraged me by being one of only two Democrats in the House to vote against impeachment. Bonus: I got to vote indirectly for cannabis legalization without “wasting my vote”. (Minnesota unfortunately doesn’t allow people to petition to get ballot measures directly, but they can petition to get _candidates_ on the ballot—and if the state party sees that I voted for Democratic/DFL candidates on the rest of my ticket but for the cannabis legalization party here, hopefully that will spur them to act in the state legislature and neutralize the issue.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897.md?page=12)