# Voting by Mail in 2020: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 30, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897 "2020-04-30T14:35:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/241 "2020-10-05T16:01:06Z")
It never occurred to me that good journalism, reporting on how the electoral process works, would be controversial. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/242 "2020-10-05T16:18:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@urbanredneck2](#): > > > > This article says in [California one doesnt need to show ID to vote](https://www.foxnews.com/media/illegal-immigrants-voting-election-integrity) so an illegal could very well vote there. > > > > You see again, it comes down to local election officials. So say an illegal shows up, wants to vote, but has no ID or a fake ID, whats to keep them from voting? > > So Jose Illegal shows up at the polling location to vote and when asked his name, what is he telling the poll worker? “Hmm, we can’t find a Jose Illegal in the list of voters.” How exactly is this supposed to work? One does not simply walk into a polling location and give a name. You give a name, and they find you on their list of registered voters who live in that precinct. So either you’re not on the list, or you give the name of someone who is (which would result in that person being deprived of their vote…but not in anyone voting twice). It’s been so long since I’ve registered that I don’t recall what forms of identification are required then. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/243 "2020-10-05T16:20:32Z")
Right so the hypothetical illegal alien who is trying to vote has to know the name of a citizen on the voter registry. Seems a little unlikely. And they’re going to risk their status in this country to vote? Seems a lot unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/244 "2020-10-06T00:05:31Z")
But according to democrats asking for identification is “racism”. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/245 "2020-10-06T00:13:31Z")
> [@pieceoftheuniverse](#): > > Second claim: San Francisco allows non-citizens to vote. > [Partially true](https://sfelections.sfgov.org/non-citizen-registration-and-voting). Non-citizens can vote only in school board elections. > > Third claim: California allows non-citizens to vote: > [Not true](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/who-can-vote-california). It is against federal law for non-citizens to vote in federal elections. > > Fourth claim: California voters do not have to present ID when voting. > [Partially true](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/where-and-how). More information: > > > In most cases, California voters are not required to show identification at their polling place. However, it is a good idea to bring identification with you when you vote for the first time. A poll worker may ask to see your identification > > Sixth claim: Non-citizens have voted in California. > Unproven. I cannot find any hard evidence either way. If there was a valid official complaint made, there should be a report (just as in Florida), but, as far as I can tell, no such report exists. Well that doesnt make sense. First you admit Californians can vote in SOME elections and you admit in California one doesnt have to show id 9although they MIGHT ask) but then you say illegals cannot vote? Look, they show up on voting day, they dont have to show ID (that would be discrimination), they just vote. Oh, they only have to say they are registered. Not to mention they just show some cheap fake ID and they get a pass right? Ok, technically they are breaking some laws. But do you really think in a liberal California sanctuary city with millions of illegals (think Los Angeles) they are going to even attempt to go after the ones breaking the law especially if they tend to vote democrat? Do you really think that? Again, yes California allows illegals to vote. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/246 "2020-10-06T00:14:57Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > It never occurred to me that good journalism, reporting on how the electoral process works, would be controversial. Depends on what questions the journalist asks. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/247 "2020-10-06T00:48:36Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > But according to democrats asking for identification is “racism”. Most voter ID laws are racist. Requiring ID conceptually might not be inherently racist but it’s really easy to design a law that targets specific forms of ID that black people are less likely to have. As an example look at the case of North Carolina: > [@](#): > > North Carolina’s law was perhaps the most blatantly racist, and it was blasted as such by the court. The fact that it was passed immediately after _Shelby County_ effectively ended federal oversight of potentially discriminatory election laws was a brazen, winking challenge to common sense. But court documents show that the timing was the least brazen bit of North Carolina’s maneuvering. Legislators requested data on racial voting patterns—including extensive data on early voting—just before creating reforms that displayed “surgical precision” in their ability to restrict early voting and establish voter ID. The result was not just the kind of racially disparate impact that often accompanies many winking-and-knowing statute-skirting policies, but a racism that was undeniable in both outcome and intent. Source: [Courts Are Recognizing that the Intent of Many New Voter Laws Is Not to Improve Democracy but to Discriminate - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/voting-rights-court-decisions-racism/493937/) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/248 "2020-10-06T01:23:29Z")
> **[Supreme Court sides with Republicans in South Carolina dispute over mail-in...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-south-carolina-mail-ballots/2020/10/05/68aedd26-0769-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html)** > > The case was one of two related to November’s election pending before the high court. > The Supreme Court Monday night agreed with South Carolina Republicans and reinstated a requirement that mail-in ballots have a witness’s signature, something federal courts had said was not needed because of the coronavirus pandemic. > > The court made one concession, saying those ballots already sent in without a witness should be counted. Tens of thousands of ballots have been sent to voters across the state. > > The court’s [brief order](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20a55_dc8e.pdf) did not list any objecting justices. Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Neil M. Gorsuch said they would have granted the request in full, without making exceptions for the ballots already cast. > … I live by myself and plan to use my mail-in ballot. So I would have to go find a neighbor or someone to witness and sign my ballot??? 😡 What the hell does that prove? ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/249 "2020-10-06T09:49:14Z")
No, having a state issues ID that is pretty hard to fake is NOT racist. You have to have ID to do all kinds of things so why not vote? Why do democrats always insist one doesnt need ID to vote? Could it be because they are ok with illegals voting? Again, look at San Francisco where they allow illegals to vote in school and local elections and are pushing for it on the bigger scale. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/250 "2020-10-06T12:12:46Z")
Who is, “pushing for it on the bigger scale?” Who is out there saying, “I sure wish undocumented people could vote in state and national elections?” Please provide some writings or speeches that would back up your assertion. Generally, Democrats don’t insist on ID to vote because it seems unnecessarily restrictive and has been used as a big cudgel to disenfranchise legitimate voters in the past. It is a solution in search of a problem and a, “solution,” that creates problems of its own; problems that are larger than the alleged problem of fraudulent voting. As someone asked above; would you explain, in detail, _how_ an undocumented person would vote in a fraudulent manner? Whose name do they provide when they show up to the polls? For how long have they practiced that person’s signature so that it looks like the one on record? How many undocumented persons do you think even attempt to vote, let alone fraudulently? ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/251 "2020-10-06T12:43:10Z")
Very simple and the same way you and I would. They just register to vote in the normal way, often by email, mail or in person, then go vote. In California they dont have to show a picture ID to register. They only need to give a social security number or a drivers license number. Then show proof of residency (like an electric bill) and they are registered and can then vote. No need to use fake names. In California democrats give drivers licenses to illegals. Yes, its illegal according to federal law. But who would stop them? How many illegals have done this? I dont know. They are only now starting to research that but as so many have gotten away with it it only encourages more. Do you think an democrat election official would even WANT to investigate or would cooperate with investigators? Who’s encouraging it? Well who pushes sanctuary city laws? Who is pushing the "[New Way Forward Act"](https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-criminals-would-be-protected-from-deportation-under-bill-aoc-and-other-house-democrats-back) which protects illegals, even those who have committed crimes, even violent crimes like rape, from being deported? Who is always screaming against border controls? Who gives ID’s like drivers licenses to illegals? [Democrats.](https://www.ocregister.com/2019/09/03/when-will-big-city-democrats-stop-enabling-illegal-immigration/) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/252 "2020-10-06T12:58:05Z")
It’s a wonder that so many eligible citizens don’t vote, if illegal residents are risking exposure to do it. So tell me @urbanredneck2, why would they do so? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/253 "2020-10-06T13:34:17Z")
“We don’t know and we don’t have any proof that it’s happening with any substantial frequency but we’re sure it’s going on.” Time for Republicans who are touting this nonsense to put up or shut up. They’ve got a DOJ that would love nothing better than to prove it’s happening but they’d rather whine instead. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/254 "2020-10-06T13:41:05Z")
Put yourself in the shoes of an illegal resident of the city of San Francisco. Say you came to the US twenty years ago and have a wife, children, a house or apartment, one or more cars and a steady job, despite not having permanent residency or citizenship. And you’re going to risk losing all of that just so you can vote? San Francisco and California as a whole are solidly blue, so it’s not as if your one vote is going to swing the election. I’m amazed that someone like @urbanredneck2 thinks that people are going to do it. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/255 "2020-10-06T14:31:26Z")
Why wouldnt they? What risk is there? Do you honestly, yes honestly, think they would: 1. Get caught voting illegally? Who the heck would catch them? There are not ICE agents and cops at voting booths waiting to check ID’s. To actually get caught would mean election officials would have to pour over voter registrations then go thru name by name and find questionable people. Then actually do an ID check? Doesnt happen very often unless pressured. 2. Get prosecuted by liberal democratic state judges for the “crime” of voting? Illegals commit crimes all the time in San Francisco and nothing happens to them. San Francisco deliberately does NOT work with ICE. Besides prosecutors in California have much bigger worries. 3. Then get deported? Good grief we have people who have been told they must leave the country and refuse all the time. Its not like ICE is just going to show up and throw them on a bus for the border. It isnt going to happen. Bottom line: Yes, they can vote and do. Democrats looking the other way and refusing to enforce the law only encourages more to do so. Reasons why vote illegally when California is solid blue? Same as anyone else, they want their voices heard. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/256 "2020-10-06T14:38:03Z")
By the way: California not requiring ID to vote is not a new thing, imposed upon the dupes by the evil socialists in Sacramento. This has always been the way we vote, going back to the days when we elected Reagan and Pete Wilson and passed state initiatives to discriminate against immigrants. So the issue is: what good reason do we have to change the way we’ve always done it? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/257 "2020-10-06T14:51:42Z")
Hey, look [here](https://s1.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterregistration/) at the online voter registration system in Missouri. Seems not so different from the [one for California](https://covr.sos.ca.gov/); both ask you if you’re a US citizen but neither asks for proof. So why isn’t Missouri a hotbed of illegal voting? BTW, the California voter registration form says, “New voters may have to show a form of identification or proof of residency the first time they vote, if a driver license or SSN was not provided when registering.” I’m guessing the reason they’re asking for the driver’s license number or SSN is someone is checking something. Like maybe whether you’re a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/258 "2020-10-06T15:06:47Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Put yourself in the shoes of an illegal resident of the city of San Francisco. Say you came to the US twenty years ago and have a wife, children, a house or apartment, one or more cars and a steady job, despite not having permanent residency or citizenship. And you’re going to risk losing all of that just so you can vote? San Francisco and California as a whole are solidly blue, so it’s not as if your one vote is going to swing the election. Exactly. The combination of not be able to register if you are not here legally, and actual name checking, and the severe penalties for voter fraud means that the number of people who successfully do it are extremely minuscule if they exist at all. Which isn’t to say it _couldn’t_ happen. You’d have to have a person who didn’t know that they weren’t able to vote (and let’s face it, people is weird so out of the million give or take people here illegally some of them may think you can vote), who coincidentally shares a name with another registered voter and the poll worker crosses off that name by mistake making the other person not able to vote. But again, even if it happens we’re talking maybe dozens of votes _being generous_ versus hundreds of thousands prevented from voting due to various other shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/259 "2020-10-06T15:13:17Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Why wouldnt they? > > What risk is there? > > Do you honestly, yes honestly, think they would: > > 1. Get caught voting illegally? Who the heck would catch them? There are not ICE agents and cops at voting booths waiting to check ID’s. To actually get caught would mean election officials would have to pour over voter registrations then go thru name by name and find questionable people. Then actually do an ID check? Doesnt happen very often unless pressured. > 2. Get prosecuted by liberal democratic state judges for the “crime” of voting? Illegals commit crimes all the time in San Francisco and nothing happens to them. San Francisco deliberately does NOT work with ICE. Besides prosecutors in California have much bigger worries. > 3. Then get deported? Good grief we have people who have been told they must leave the country and refuse all the time. Its not like ICE is just going to show up and throw them on a bus for the border. It isnt going to happen. > > Bottom line: Yes, they can vote and do. Democrats looking the other way and refusing to enforce the law only encourages more to do so. > > Reasons why vote illegally when California is solid blue? Same as anyone else, they want their voices heard. Go get the proof. This is simply long time Republican conjecture. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/260 "2020-10-06T17:30:12Z")
No, they dont. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897.md?page=14)