# Voting by Mail in 2020: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 30, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897 "2020-04-30T14:35:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/341 "2020-10-13T23:58:11Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Yeah, as cited above, you are assuming this, but [it isn’t what happens](https://www.concordmonitor.com/aclu-ballot-signature-ruling-19481030). I guess I’m coming from a California perspective, [where it is the law](https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Sloppy-handwriting-could-get-your-mail-ballot-15417280.php) (as of 2018) to give voters a chance to fix their signature. As the article says, not all of the mismatches were corrected. Maybe they were fraudulent, or semi-fraudulent (i.e., a wife signing an otherwise-legitimate ballot for her husband). It does seem like a fairly small problem in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/342 "2020-10-14T00:12:32Z")
Glad we are now on the same page. Even if people are given a chance to fix it, it’s still a glaring opportunity for one party (and less be honest, it will be republicans) to “invalidate” as many ballots as possible (again, by someone with absolutely no training) in Democratic areas and some will get repaired, when a minimal if any effort to contact is made, and some won’t. Not hypothetical. Already happening. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/343 "2020-10-14T00:18:18Z")
If there’s evidence of bias, or if the contact efforts are insufficient, or if the process is insufficiently formalized, then there should be a lawsuit. The lawsuits are winnable–the ACLU showed that. There are a zillion ways to mess with ballots, and for the most part the right answer is to fight these things with lawsuits, not throwing away the process entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/344 "2020-10-14T00:24:02Z")
Great. And until they work that out no ballots should be invalidated by a signature unless there is an investigation and it is proven to be fraudulent. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/345 "2020-10-14T00:44:59Z")
Eh. We’re getting into hanging chad territory. The signature has been a cross-check since forever, and doesn’t seem to result in many problems. Defective ballots, whether because they got mutilated somehow, or were incorrectly marked, or had a mismatching signature, or whatever, were always in a gray area when it comes to being counted. I certainly don’t mind tightening up the system, but eliminating the signature completely doesn’t sound like a great solution. I’d want evidence that doing so wouldn’t invite fraud. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/346 "2020-10-14T05:27:49Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Someone on this forum recently made the point that the people who conjure ways that voter fraud can happen rarely can cite examples of it actually happening. Here’s one example of someone attempting to commit voter fraud by forging a signature: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-colorado-voterfraud/ex-head-of-colorado-republicans-charged-with-voter-fraud-idUSKBN16T37X](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-colorado-voterfraud/ex-head-of-colorado-republicans-charged-with-voter-fraud-idUSKBN16T37X) The miscreant was opposed to Colorado’s VbM system and I’m going to guess was going to use his own case of voter fraud as proof the system is rife with fraud. Anything to get better ratings (he was a radio talk show host), I guess. Didn’t quite work out the way he planned. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/347 "2020-10-14T12:57:05Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I have seen it mentioned in the news that ALL states have some mechanism for doing this. Just saw an article today that in Missouri tracking is on a county-by-county basis. Apparently St Louis city and county (which I think are entirely separate geographic entities) have it, Jackson county (most of Kansas City) doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/348 "2020-10-14T14:35:57Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Would you have a problem if Dems set up boxes in inner-city areas in Texas? (Assuming it was legal.) Yes. It’s the “chain of custody” problem. There absolutely needs to be more drop off boxes in TX - they need to be placed by TX election officials. I’m an advocate for more official drop off boxes. I’d be totally ok if a group provided maps that showed how to get from their storefront or church to the nearest official drop off box. A post service/mass convoy-to-the-drop-off-box is a great idea. (in non-covid times, shuttling people to the polls or to the drop-off box is also fine). But this? no. Who knows if the unofficial people are going to submit all the ballots? Who knows if they’re going to alter them? There’s a lack of oversight that makes this a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/349 "2020-10-15T04:05:15Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The miscreant was opposed to Colorado’s VbM system and I’m going to guess was going to use his own case of voter fraud as proof the system is rife with fraud. Anything to get better ratings (he was a radio talk show host), I guess. Didn’t quite work out the way he planned. Wow, that’s perfect. 😃 Showing not only who is intent on committing voter fraud, but how difficult it is to actually pull it off. Thank you for sharing that! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/350 "2020-10-15T12:50:16Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > I’d be totally ok if a group provided maps that showed how to get from their storefront or church to the nearest official drop off box. My little county in the Colorado mountains has an app that maps drop off box locations. It’s trivial to set up. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/351 "2020-10-16T00:07:01Z")
This put me in a better mood > **[How Quickly Will Your Absentee Vote Be Counted? A State-by-State Timeline...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/politics/when-votes-counted-tonight-election.html)** > > In a year when absentee ballots are surging, not all states are providing election officials enough time to process them before Election Day, and some do not allow them time at all. Two key swing states will not have numbers available until up to a week after the election, but the other swing states will begin counting quickly or start counting as soon as they receive ballots. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/352 "2020-10-16T13:48:48Z")
Based on these timelines and early voting trends, I’m feeling marginally better about one “Trump steals the election” scenario than previously. The hypothetical was that Trump would jump out to an early lead on election night, as his voters turned up on election day and Biden’s support would depend on absentee ballots that would slowly trickle in before and after election day. Trump and conservative media would declare victory on election night, and would scream fraud as Biden’s vote totals in swing states crept past his days later. The goal being to “flood the zone” and sew enough confusion about who’s the legitimate winner that Republican state legislators or the courts could hand him the necessary electoral college votes he needs. Now, potentially the exact opposite could happen. With Democrats so fired up to get their ballots in now through absentee and in-person early voting, Biden could easily jump out to a significant early lead in swing states that count absentee votes before election day like NC, OH, FL and AZ. It’ll be Trump who will be playing catch up election night and into the next morning as precincts report their election day voting numbers. Ironically, he could be in a position where he’s still behind in critical swing states and _needs_ late-arriving absentee ballots (which may tilt more Republican) to be included in the count. I’m reminded of an episode of _Veep_ where Selina’s lawyers are arguing to keep a recount going because they’re aware that there’s a cache of uncounted votes they think will favor her. They find out that the votes will actually benefit her opponent, and her lawyer mid-stream in oral arguments before the court starts arguing that they need to stop this “endless recount.” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/353 "2020-10-16T14:10:51Z")
Yeah, the ideal scenario would be for Biden to be ahead at midnight Nov. 3 – and then the lead just keeps getting bigger in the days to follow. “It’s like a nightmare, isn’t it? It just keeps getting worse and worse.” ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/354 "2020-10-16T21:07:27Z")
Don’t recall seeing this yet (and apologies if it has been mentioned): > **[Postal Service agrees to reverse service changes](https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-lawsuits-montana-steve-bullock-4bdadb8d76f97eccaed706fcaf79f50e)** > > HELENA, Mont. (AP) — The U.S. Postal Service agreed Wednesday to reverse changes that slowed mail service nationwide, settling a lawsuit filed by Montana Gov. > The postal service agreed to reverse all changes, which included reduced retail hours, **removal of collection boxes and mail sorting machines** , closure or consolidation of mail processing facilities, restriction of late or extra trips for timely mail delivery, and banning or restricting overtime. > > The agreement also requires the Postal Service to prioritize election mail. Regarding the highlighted section, I seem to recall Postmaster General DeJoy (or one of his ~~henchmen~~ assistants) saying that the sorting machines could not be put back together. If that be so, someone is lying — either about the original statement or the current agreement. Which astonishes me not in the least. It also wouldn’t astonish me if the service restoration will take two (or three) weeks. But at least it’s a slap at one element of the malAdministration’s voter suppression strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/355 "2020-10-17T06:00:55Z")
Various news reports at the time said that some of those sorting machines had been physically dismantled and the pieces hauled out to the dumpster. Someone even mentioned left out to rust in the rain. IIRC there were photos. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/356 "2020-10-17T06:07:05Z")
ETA: Links, from various days last August, with photos: [Machine in dumpster in Colorado](https://www.9news.com/video/news/local/next/usps-says-trashed-mail-sorting-machine-wasnt-new/73-82ea8992-6d57-462b-8bec-783e59a6cd31) [Machine in dumpster allegedly in California](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xg8kwk/usps-policy-change-rollbacks-postmaster-general-dejoy) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/357 "2020-10-18T20:34:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Along with every other voter in Hawaii, I received my ballot in the mail this past week. I sat down and voted yesterday. Will mail it today. Hawaii is very explicit in its instructions. The ballot MUST be there no later than 7pm on Election Day. This state will not count late-arriving ballots. There are ballot drop boxes for those doofuses who do put it to the very last minute. > > We have a secret ballot in this country, so I do not have to tell anyone how I voted. Whether it was for that evil, shit-eating, moronic traitor Donald J. Chump or for the potential savior of our country, Joseph Biden, you’ll just have to guess. I mailed in my ballot a week ago and checked online today. It has been received for counting. I’m still not going to reveal whom I voted for – the monstrous cretin from Hell or the kindly, upright statesman. Hawaii is a reliably blue state, and we have only four electoral votes, but it is nice to know my vote will be added to the overall total, making the end gap just that much wider. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/358 "2020-10-18T21:49:30Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > the monstrous cretin from Hell or the kindly, upright statesman- Hehe. Very sub-tile. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/359 "2020-10-18T22:23:15Z")
"Ballot Accepted 10/09/2020 Your ballot has been accepted! Your ballot was received by your county elections office and will be counted." ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897/360 "2020-10-19T00:08:28Z")
I got one of these, too! I’m in Colorado. Here’s the timeline: 1. 2020-10-09 Email notification that ballot was mailed 2. 2020-10-10 All the ballots for our household (currently 4 adults–wife, self, newly-graduated-into-pandemic son and his girlfriend) 3. 2020-10-11 We all sit around the dining room table filling in the bubbles, then drive to the drop-off box by the County Clerk office in Boulder 4. 2020-10-12 Email notification that ballot has been received 5. 2020-10-15 Email notification that signature is verified and ballot has been accepted I think my wife’s is still waiting for signature verification, but the 22-year-olds’ ballots are also accepted. It should be this easy for every American, full stop. And now we wait. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voting-by-mail-in-2020-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/852897.md?page=19)