# Vowelless words **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 3, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905 "2003-05-03T20:35:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/1 "2003-05-03T20:35:23Z")
Do you know of any, other than: NTH - as in “To the nth degree” SH - an urge to silence CWM - a shallow valley ? ---
**Author:** ![daniel801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@daniel801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daniel801)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/2 "2003-05-03T20:36:35Z")
rhythm ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/3 "2003-05-03T20:43:10Z")
[http://domin.dom.edu/depts/gslis/stumpers/faq.html](http://domin.dom.edu/depts/gslis/stumpers/faq.html) Brrr: The sound of shivering Crwth: An ancient stringed musical instrument Cwm: A cirque (a steep-walled mountain basin shaped like half a bowl) Grr: The sound of a dog Hm: An interjection expressing assent Hsh: An interjection used to urge silence Nth: adjective pertaining to an indefinitely large number Phpht (pht): An interjection used to express annoyance Psst (pst): An interjection used to attract someone’s attention Shh (sh): An interjection used to urge silence Tch: An interjection expressing vexation or disgust Tsk: An exclamation of annoyance Tsktsk: To utter tsk Tst: An interjection used to urge silence" Notice no Y’s included. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/4 "2003-05-03T20:47:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by daniel801 \* > \*\*rhythm \*\* That one where the “…and sometimes Y” rule applies. There’s lots of those: CRY, TRY, etc. ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/5 "2003-05-03T21:05:54Z")
Ng: a surname. Wff: a proposition in formal logic. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/6 "2003-05-03T21:07:34Z")
“cwm” and “crwth” aren’t actually vowelless. They’re just foreign words, in a language (Welsh) in which “w” is a vowel. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/7 "2003-05-03T21:17:59Z")
If we are going to exclude words used in the “American” language that have foreign origins and/or influences, then we aren’t going to have too many words from which to choose, are we? Sorry, typical self-centered ugly American syndrome at work here. Assuming everyone here is US… So, **AWB** what are the rules here? Languages? timelines? cultures? etc. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/8 "2003-05-03T21:26:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slipster \* > **Ng: a surname.** Suzee [Vlk](http://www.allbookstores.com/browse/Author/Vlk,%20Suzee), of whom I learned when she appeared on _Jeopardy!_ I once knew a man named Edward **Srp**. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/9 "2003-05-03T22:25:38Z")
Syzygy ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/10 "2003-05-03T22:37:12Z")
Vlk means ‘wolf’ in Czech and Srp means ‘sickle’ in Serbo-Croatian. Guess what: in some Slavic languages, l and r can function as vowels. They’re called “vocalic l” and “vocalic r”. The vocalic l and vocalic r also existed in Sanskrit, where they’re classed as vowels, not consonants. These go back to Proto-Indo-European. So those names don’t count as vowelless. They only look that way. English, in fact, also has vocalic l, in words like _bottle, trouble._\* The final vowel sound is made in the l position. There is no other vowel sound except that made by the l forming a syllable of its own. _Syzygy_ obviously isn’t even in the running. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/11 "2003-05-03T22:46:56Z")
Why? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/12 "2003-05-03T22:49:51Z")
Why what? ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/13 "2003-05-03T22:58:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\*So, **AWB** what are the rules here? Languages? timelines? cultures? etc. 😃 \*\* Basically, words that can be used in Scrabble: non-proper (uncapitalized), non-hyphenated, non-contraction. On the inclusive: English names of foreign letters, English names of foreign currencies; Welsh, Scottish, Irish, American, and Australian words. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/14 "2003-05-03T23:05:33Z")
According to some theories of speech perception [(cite)](http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/Common/Research/language-communication/continuous_speech.shtml), it might very well be impossible for words to exist without vowels (in speech, that is, spelling is a different game). Only utterances with vowel sounds in them can be recognised as words. I don’t know whether they would make an exeption for things like '“shh” , or just say that that wouldn’t be a word. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/15 "2003-05-03T23:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Why? \*\* 😃 “Jomo Mojo: Why what?” 😃 That’s why…who’s on first Why = Y **AWB** What letters are considered vowels? I’ve heard y & w count as vowels in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/16 "2003-05-03T23:29:21Z")
“Y” is a vowel when it makes a vowel sound. See words like “cry”, “try”, “tryst.” What is a vowel? Well, according to Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > one of a class of speech sounds in the articulation of which the oral part of the breath channel is not blocked and is not constricted enough to cause audible friction “W” is only a pure vowel when it makes the “oo” sound, as in “cwm.” In American English, there is no word I can think of in which “w” is a pure vowel. However, letters such as “w” and “y” when treated as consonants, are really semi-vowels, or glides. I’m sure **Jomo** will be in soon with a technically precise distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/17 "2003-05-04T03:44:22Z")
**pulykamell** explained it so well, I can’t think of anything to add. Just remember, **MaryEFoo** , that things like vowels and consonants are sounds. The letters of the alphabet used to spell them are irrelevant in linguistics; you have to look at the sounds and ignore the letters. Then you will understand what a vowel is and what a consonant is. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/18 "2003-05-04T03:45:17Z")
I appreciate the M/W input. Perhaps I should have been more specific? What constitutes a vowel according to the OP’s recent ruling. “Basically, words that can be used in Scrabble: non-proper (uncapitalized), non-hyphenated, non-contraction. On the inclusive: English names of foreign letters, English names of foreign currencies; Welsh, Scottish, Irish, American, and Australian words.” If we include all the countries listed and the vocabularys thereof, the words included in the list should be interesting. Was Canada included? They are UK related…right? or are they more closely linked to France…😉 ---
**Author:** ![NeutronJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neutronjack/32/4134_2.png) [@NeutronJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeutronJack)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/19 "2003-05-04T04:09:03Z")
Incidentally, I’ve _never_ seen “cwm” used unquoted in a sentence. Oh, sure, I’ve seen “You know, ‘cwm’ is a word,” but I’ve never seen “Let’s go to the cwm.” Has anybody ever heard “cwm” used unquoted in the USA? ---
**Author:** ![viking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@viking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/viking)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905/20 "2003-05-04T04:23:28Z")
There was a bluff we used to climb on outside Ottawa named the western cwm after the rather more famous western cwm by that big hill over in Nepal… So when I was living there we used it all the time, pretty much exactly in the sentence ``So, shall we head to the cwm’’. Of course, Ottawa isn’t in the USA exactly, but it’s only a couple of hours drive away. Does that count? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vowelless-words/172905.md?page=2)