# Voyager 1 - Did anyone argue against the info disc? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622 "2012-08-06T15:59:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/21 "2012-08-06T19:36:10Z")
Any chance of our probes being found? None. It was an exobiological, intellectual exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/22 "2012-08-06T19:54:06Z")
The intended recipients of the message have already read and acknowledged it. It was never meant to be a message to aliens; it was meant as a message to other humans. Yeah, it seems silly that you’d need to launch an engraving a gazillion miles away from the nearest humans in order to get their attention, but we’re weird that way sometimes. Please note, this does _not_ mean that the plaques were pointless. Inspiring other humans is, in fact, one of the points of the space program. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/23 "2012-08-06T20:01:58Z")
As a countermeasure, we radioize political debates and beam them directly toward outer space. Since alien marauders are particularly interested in enslaving _intelligent_ races, these signals lead them to seek satisfaction elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/24 "2012-08-06T20:21:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think you are conflating the [golden plaques](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pioneer10-plaque.jpg)sent out with Pioneers 10 and 11 in 1972 and 1973 with the [golden records](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record) sent with Voyagers 1 and 2 in 1977. Correct. Thanks for reminding me. But the point remains the same… > [@tim314](#): > > I would guess almost all of the resources of our planet are far more common than intelligent life. > [@bldysabba](#): > > Any civilisation advanced enough to make it here would not have to depend upon extracting resources from planets. How do we know that? That’s a big assumption. Why would “advanced enough to make it here” mean they don’t need resources from other planets? That sounds like a pretty idealized idea of what an advanced civilization would be. (I can imagine some Native Americans making the same argument: Hey, if they can get across The Big Lake That Never Ends, what could they possibly want that we have? They’d have to be way too advanced to depend upon extracting resources from our land.) We don’t know what they’re like, what they want, what they need, what we have that we don’t even realize is valuable to them. Maybe not water. Maybe it’s dryer lint. Maybe it’s us. (To Serve Humans: It’s a bestselling cookbook.) We just don’t know. Colibri, good to hear that Sagan at least acknowledged the issue. I would have enjoyed debating this with him. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/25 "2012-08-06T20:30:24Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > How do we know that? That’s a big assumption. Why would “advanced enough to make it here” mean they don’t need resources from other planets? That sounds like a pretty idealized idea of what an advanced civilization would be. The amount of easily recoverable resources in this system alone is enormous. Many magnitudes of order more than the meager resources we can recover by scratching a few thousand feet of dirt of the surface of the Earth. There is absolutely NO reason a civilization capable of travelling the stars would ever need to stoop to raiding a habitable planet. “The asteroid 16 Psyche is believed to contain 1.7×10^19 kg of nickel–iron, which could supply the world production requirement for several million years. A small portion of the extracted material would also be precious metals.” ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/26 "2012-08-06T20:36:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The amount of easily recoverable resources in this system alone is enormous. Many magnitudes of order more than the meager resources we can recover by scratching a few thousand feet of dirt of the surface of the Earth. > > There is absolutely NO reason a civilization capable of travelling the stars would ever need to stoop to raiding a habitable planet. > > “The asteroid 16 Psyche is believed to contain 1.7×10^19 kg of nickel–iron, which could supply the world production requirement for several million years. A small portion of the extracted material would also be precious metals.” Sorry if I’m repeating myself, but isn’t this an assumption that we know what they need or want? To say “There is absolutely NO reason a civilization capable of travelling the stars would ever need to stoop to raiding a habitable planet” seems, umm, a little presumptuous. What if nickel-iron is complete crap to them but they want something else? How can you be so sure? You even used all caps on NO. That expresses a level of certainty that I find intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/27 "2012-08-06T20:44:59Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > The worst part was the arrows indicating our vulnerable points. Bad idea, in retrospect. And the description about how tasty the parts are. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/28 "2012-08-06T20:58:45Z")
As close as the spacecraft are to us, it would be fairly obvious where they came from in any event. And well within the radio envelope. If they’re not found for another million years or so, then we’ll either be extinct or something far removed from whatever is described on the discs. In either case, the data is irrelevent. ETA: Personally I think we’ll have expanded into space and built a museum/casino/resort around it keeping pace with it on it’s travels through the cosmos. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/29 "2012-08-06T21:12:58Z")
Forget the arrows. Interpreting \*\*lines \*\*as **outlines** is itself an artifact of the edge-detection circuitry of the human visual system. Creatures with different visual hardware may not be able to make sense of line art as pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/30 "2012-08-06T21:31:47Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > Sorry if I’m repeating myself, but isn’t this an assumption that we know what they need or want? To say “There is absolutely NO reason a civilization capable of travelling the stars would ever need to stoop to raiding a habitable planet” seems, umm, a little presumptuous. What if nickel-iron is complete crap to them but they want something else? Name a resource anyone cannot find metric fucktons more of floating around in space, or synthesize massively cheaper than flying light years to recover. Unless they want our Art. We have tons of crap artists who would be thrilled to oblige them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/31 "2012-08-06T22:28:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Name a resource anyone cannot find metric fucktons more of floating around in space, or synthesize massively cheaper than flying light years to recover. Pearls. Amber. Bezoars. Yeah, all could be synthesized, but maybe their jewelers are as stuck-up as ours and insist on only using materials formed in the natural way. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/32 "2012-08-06T22:45:19Z")
I see it as a cry for help. Our unsustainable wildlife management is at risk of wiping out the elephant, and thus a huge part of the potential ivory production of this arm of the galaxy. But ivory-loving aliens could conquer us and do what we can’t bear to do: wipe 90% of us out, and start farming elephants for ivory in earnest, thus saving the interstellar pianoforte trade. Sadly, the Pioneer plaques describe a single small planet beyond Neptune, which we now understand to be inaccurate. This may confuse the aliens long enough that the elephant will become extinct before they find their way here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/33 "2012-08-07T00:34:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Name a resource anyone cannot find metric fucktons more of floating around in space, or synthesize massively cheaper than flying light years to recover. Earthlings? (Is a metric fuckton bigger than a regular fuckton? I never did get metrics.) The point is still that you’re assuming you know what they’d be interested in – anything that you as a 21st century Earthling would recognize as a “resource.” You don’t know what they would consider a resource or reason to come visit. I don’t either. They might want to just come and fuck with us for the fun of it. If we don’t know who they are, what they are, where they are, or have even the slightest idea what they want or need, how can we be sure we’re so uninteresting to them? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/34 "2012-08-07T01:09:28Z")
From here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents\_of\_the\_Voyager\_Golden\_Record](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record) “Sagan had originally asked for permission to include “Here Comes the Sun” from the Beatles’ album Abbey Road. While the Beatles favoured it, EMI opposed it and the song was not included.” Amazingly narrow-minded. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/35 "2012-08-07T01:55:25Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > If we don’t know who they are, what they are, where they are, or have even the slightest idea what they want or need, how can we be sure we’re so uninteresting to them? Imagine yourself in a Gary Larson Far Side cartoon. Imagine that this statement appears in a bubble quote as two lichens speak to each other from under a rock. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/36 "2012-08-07T02:26:37Z")
[Oh I think we already know what they want](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097257/). ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/37 "2012-08-07T03:29:32Z")
It was pointed out (no cite) that assuming they might think the outline of the humans was a map of some sort; that they might think these creatures have snake like arms (perspective drawing indicating 3D is not to be assumed–even on Earth–especially if “they” use eyes; if they can even comprehend that beings make self portraits; etc. Risible from the beginning. I’ll have to check how much it cost. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/38 "2012-08-07T10:08:55Z")
> [@Lazlo](#): > > [Oh I think we already know what they want](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097257/). [That’s been known for decades](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060672/) > [@Chronos](#): > > Pearls. Amber. Bezoars. Also cow pats. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/39 "2012-08-07T13:43:04Z")
Intelligent life forms?, perhaps they need slave labor to work in their interplanetary sweatshop chain? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622/40 "2012-08-07T18:28:14Z")
“Perhaps the safest thing to do [in contacting alien life] at the outset, if technology permits, is to send music. This language may be the best we have for explaining what we are like to others in space, with least ambiguity. I would vote for Bach, all of Bach, streamed out into space, over and over again. We would be bragging of course, but it is surely excusable to put the best possible face on at the beginning of such an acquaintance. We can tell the harder truths later.” - Lewis Thomas, 1974 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voyager-1-did-anyone-argue-against-the-info-disc/630622.md?page=3)