# VP Debates Thread, or "Beauty and the Beast" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649 "2004-10-05T15:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/321 "2004-10-06T03:05:07Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > MSNBC gives it to Edwards 72% to Cheney’s 28% :dubious: > > [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/) **Patty** - that’s a click the dot poll. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/322 "2004-10-06T03:05:13Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > MSNBC gives it to Edwards 72% to Cheney’s 28% :dubious: > > [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/) The first reports from the field are most often proven wrong. Well, let’s at least not be premature. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/323 "2004-10-06T03:05:18Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Classless?? What debate were you watching? Edwards said he admired Cheney for his relationship with his daughter, and Cheney thanked Edwards for his comments. Well, to be fair, didn’t the moderator bring it up first? ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/324 "2004-10-06T03:06:01Z")
I’ll add to the consensus that think Cheney won pretty handily. I disagree with much that he said, but he did a good job as coming across as intellegent and serious. Edwards on the other hand, fell into the stereotype of himself, as inexperienced and partisan. He also needed to do a better job of dismissing Cheney’s attacks. The moderator had much better questions then Lehrer, too bad nobody deigned to answer them. I will tune into her show next week, so I guess she wins the debate. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/325 "2004-10-06T03:06:31Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > MSNBC gives it to Edwards 72% to Cheney’s 28% Too rich! I can’t wait to see how CNN rates it. Its…interesting. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/326 "2004-10-06T03:07:33Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Classless?? What debate were you watching? Edwards said he admired Cheney for his relationship with his daughter, and Cheney thanked Edwards for his comments. I suppose the one you were watching. It was a classless act done to make a poltical point. If Kerry / Edwards were so concerned they’d favor gay marriage. They don’t. It was political and it was classless. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/327 "2004-10-06T03:07:41Z")
**Tigers’** “classless” remark was aimed at Edwards for bringing up the gay daughter. Regarding the moderator bringing up the whole issue, I wouldn’t call that classless. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/328 "2004-10-06T03:08:16Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > MSNBC gives it to Edwards 72% to Cheney’s 28% :dubious: > > [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/) Our **Dio** -like friends over at DU. They have a ‘hit these polls’ campaign for skewing the results. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/329 "2004-10-06T03:08:31Z")
i thought it was rather well know that edwards wears his son’s pin from outward bound. interesting, mr cheney, we shouldn’t count the iraqis that died when we invaded their country, but should count the ones that are being attacked by people who have been able to get into iraq because we didn’t secure it… hhhhmmmm. cheney didn’t mention poland though… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/330 "2004-10-06T03:08:35Z")
Not an official poll from MSNBC…but 288973 responses so far. Still, not exactly a good measure. I take it back about MSNBC (I hadn’t checked the link before my previous post…my bad). 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/331 "2004-10-06T03:08:53Z")
I still don’t see it as the huge victory for Edwards that the “polls and surveys” are claiming. I know one thing for sure, Cheney is a more skillful debater than Bush, and gives the impression of having more general competence. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/332 "2004-10-06T03:08:57Z")
So Cheney wins by lying. I guess outright lying does work, even in straightdope. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/333 "2004-10-06T03:09:22Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Our **Dio** -like friends over at DU. They have a ‘hit these polls’ campaign for skewing the results. I don’t want to link to DU, but it’s a ‘sticky’ under Campaign 2004. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/334 "2004-10-06T03:09:52Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I thought Kerry won the first debate. > > Looked to me like Cheney was slaughtering Edwards through the first half. Edwards displayed adaptability though and rallied to undo much of the damage, but I think it’s a pretty clear win for Cheney. > > I almost fell off my chair when Cheney did the whole absentee thing and said this is the first I met the Senator and I’m in charge of the senate. Ouch! You could tell from Edward’s expression, that one hit home… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/335 "2004-10-06T03:10:30Z")
The Hardball coverage on MSNBC is giving to Cheney by a pretty good margin. I missed the last half of the debate, but in the first half I thought Cheney was delivering a beating on Edwards. The biggest surprise for me was Gwen Ifil. I thought she did a superb job. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/336 "2004-10-06T03:13:13Z")
> [@capacitor](#): > > So Cheney wins by lying. > > I guess outright lying does work, even in straightdope. Politics has a Prime Directive - It’s only a lie if you get caught. Keep in mind that I am anti-Bush and anti-Cheney. Edwards could have done better, he had some good zingers, but didn’t follow through. ---
**Author:** ![Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Live_Better_Electrically)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/337 "2004-10-06T03:13:29Z")
Edwards was at a disadvantage having to debate the President himself. Cheney succeeded in appearing knowledgeable and competent, but–damn!–the dude lies like a rug. And with such _conviction_! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/338 "2004-10-06T03:15:21Z")
Twins beat the Yankees 2-0. Whoohoo! ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/339 "2004-10-06T03:15:34Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > I suppose the one you were watching. It was a classless act done to make a poltical point. If Kerry / Edwards were so concerned they’d favor gay marriage. They don’t. It was political and it was classless. Still think Edwards is classless for this? [Full Transcript](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/debates/articles/2004/10/05/transcript_of_the_vice_presidential_debate?pg=full) **IFILL:** The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President. I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: Freedom means freedom for everybody. You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. _And you used your family’s experience as a context for your remarks._ Can you describe then your administration’s support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/340 "2004-10-06T03:17:09Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Politics has a Prime Directive - It’s only a lie if you get caught. Keep in mind that I am anti-Bush and anti-Cheney. Edwards could have done better, he had some good zingers, but didn’t follow through. It doesn’t even matter if you get caught, all you have to do is float the idea out there. To the partisans on either side, it doesn’t matter it it’s true or not and the press sure isn’t going to investigate anyting or ask difficult questions in fear of being cast off the island… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649.md?page=18)