# VP Debates Thread, or "Beauty and the Beast" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649 "2004-10-05T15:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/21 "2004-10-05T16:43:34Z")
> [@HoldOnThere](#): > > Here’s an idea. How about if Edwards yells ‘BOO!’ and let’s see if Cheney has a heart attack. :eek: Talk about “Must See TV!” Cheney: “As the President has said repeatedly in the past, 'Those that aren’t with us, are again…URK!” Plop. That would be one of those “Do you remember where you were when…” moments. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/22 "2004-10-05T16:44:02Z")
> [@HoldOnThere](#): > > Here’s an idea. How about if Edwards yells ‘BOO!’ and let’s see if Cheney has a heart attack. :eek: Then we’d have George Bush running the country! Double- :eek: ! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/23 "2004-10-05T16:44:05Z")
Eh, IMO, it’s a meaningless sideshow, and I’ve really heard quite enough Republican bullshit about Saddam’s supposed ties to 9/11 for one election, thank you very much. Nevertheless, I’ll tune in tonight, in the vain hope of an expletive-laced Cheney meltdown. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/24 "2004-10-05T16:50:09Z")
> [@HoldOnThere](#): > > I think Edward’s strategy will be to try and get Cheney mad. I’ve heard he has a hot temper. He can come off with some gems when he’s torqued, but I don’t think I would _try_ to get him mad. Because if reined in just enough, sputtering rage can come off as righteous indignation. And Cheney’s shrewd. He’ll be looking for traps, I bet. The tricky thing for Edwards, too, I think, will be modulating his attacks so as not to sound over-eager or snide (there’s a mild petulance that crops up when he’s faced with a question he doesn’t like). As long as he’s able to keep Cheney on the defensive throughout like Kerry did with Shrub, he could edge by with more nods. Cheney has more to account for than a few questionable Senate votes. But if he gains the upper hand by compelling Edwards to defend his record too much or worse, sucks him into the still-dangerous vortex of Kerry’s semantics regarding his own positions, the whole thing could easily go into Cheney’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/25 "2004-10-05T16:51:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why? Why can’t the reporters just call every debate as they see it? No, I mean that the psychology of it will be such that they don’t. As Uke said. I could be wrong, though. Hell, I’d like nothing more than for Cheny to implode. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/26 "2004-10-05T16:53:49Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > No, I mean that the psychology of it will be such that they don’t. Unless you buy that crap about “liberal media bias,” the media are not, strictly speaking, **in** race. (Well, Fox is, but CNN isn’t.) I really don’t see why they would think in “strategic” terms, giving Cheney a pass so they can save their big guns for Bush’s next debate performance. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/27 "2004-10-05T16:58:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, last week’s debate viewing was hosted at my house, and we had a shot for every “nu-ku-lyar” heard, and ended up plastered by the time the whole thing was over. I would suggest a shot everytime Edwards says HALLIBURTON or Cheney says “Stong and Forcefull”. You need to drain the whole bottle if Cheney pulls a Darth Vader and uses the force to choke and snuff the life out of Edwards’ ewok\* like body. Okay, not exactly, but he is a bit cute and definitely more furry than Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Niceguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mr.Niceguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Niceguy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/28 "2004-10-05T17:02:49Z")
I think I remember hearing that Edwards sued God and won. Cheney is a light breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/29 "2004-10-05T17:41:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Unless you buy that crap about “liberal media bias,” the media are not, strictly speaking, **in** race. (Well, Fox is, but CNN isn’t.) I really don’t see why they would think in “strategic” terms, giving Cheney a pass so they can save their big guns for Bush’s next debate performance. My take on Debate 1 was that Bush was so pathetic that the media _had_ to give Kerry the points. For the VP debate, some of the faux objectivity might take over and they might pretend that Cheny held his own. Then they might spin Debate 2 as a comeback for Bush if he is not completely stumbling and drooling. It will be interesting to see how the conservative media continue to mold the story. Many permutations are possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/30 "2004-10-05T17:53:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, last week’s debate viewing was hosted at my house, and we had a shot for every “nu-ku-lyar” heard, and ended up plastered by the time the whole thing was over. I would suggest a shot everytime Edwards says HALLIBURTON or Cheney says “Stong and Forcefull”. If Kerry supporters were forced to drop and do 10 pushups for every “Halliburton” out of Edwards’ mouth and Bush fans required to do the same for every time Cheney says “trial lawyers”, we’d have a stronger and more forceful nation in no time. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/31 "2004-10-05T18:02:46Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > By the way, where the hell have you been the last coupla months Right here, Snoogums. I guess I’m just not as voluble as I used to be. > [@Eve](#): > > did you ever get that book I sent you? Yes, thank you, and it was delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/32 "2004-10-05T18:05:17Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Cheney’s evil, but he’s smart, and more self-possessed than Bush. I am reluctantly predicting a draw, or a Cheney “win” tonight. He’s certainly possessed, what with the contract signed in blood and all that. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/33 "2004-10-05T18:13:55Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > It will be interesting to see how the conservative media continue to mold the story. Many permutations are possible. I listened to Rush Limbaugh the day after the debate. Bush _destroyed_ Kerry in the first debate, on the substantive issues of course, it wasn’t even close. Bush did miss the big chance to remove and eat Kerry’s still beating heart, and Rush did take the President to task for that, but explained that the president did seem a little tired and frustrated with the Senator’s inanities by the end. The man is pure comic genius. I highly recommend catching Rush’s spin tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/34 "2004-10-05T18:38:11Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I’m going to be watching to see if Cheney curses again. Perhaps they should put the debate on a five-second delay, just in case they need to bleep something? > [@nurse carmen](#): > > Damn fine question. These two haven’t been in the limelight enough for us to grasp some of their tics. Am I the only one whose mind flashed to the Super Bowl upon reading the first, and saw “grasp tics” as “grasp tits” in the second? That would be lively. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/35 "2004-10-05T18:41:51Z")
> [@NotMrKnowItAll](#): > > What I want to know is what are the drinking rules for this debate? A sip a snarl? A bowl an expletive? Help me out here, I don’t want to end up sober at the end. Tentative Proposal: Cheney refers to Edwards’s youth/inexperience: 1 drink Moderator asks a question based on Edwards’s youth/inexperience: 2 drinks Edwards refers to Cheney’s health/age/bad heart: 1 drink Moderator asks a question based on Cheney’s health/age/bad heart: 2 drinks Cheney’s heart gives out on stage: finish bottle Cheney says “trial lawyer”: 2 drinks Edwards says “two Americas”: 2 drinks Edwards says “mislead”: 1 drink Cheney says “best intelligence”: 1 drink Either says “WMDs” or “nuclear proliferation”: 1 drink Edwards mentions Al-Queda’s “connection” to Iraq: 2 drinks _Cheney_ mentions Al-Queda’s “connection” to Iraq: 3 drinks Cheney says “liberal” or “left wing”: 1 drink (with modifier “too”: 2 drinks) Edwards says “conservative” or “right wing”: 1 drink (with modifier “too”: 2 drinks) Any mention of the Supreme Court: 1 drink Any SC Justice by name: 2 drinks per mention Cheney mentions 9/11: 1 drink Edwards mentions Patriot act: 1 drink Edwards mentions deficit: 1 drink Cheney mentions cost of Kerry’s programs: 1 drink Either mentions Vietnam: 3 drinks Any expletive: chug 'til you run out of breath **Bonus Don’t-have-to-work Wednesday Rules** Cheney says “Kerry”: 1 drink Cheney says “Bush”: 2 drinks Edwards says “Bush”: 1 drink Edwards says “Kerry”: 2 drinks Either says both “Bush” and “Kerry” in the same sentence: finish bottle What say you? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/36 "2004-10-05T18:45:42Z")
I’d say you’re trying to kill us all! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/37 "2004-10-05T18:48:59Z")
Plus you left out “Halliburton.” And “no bid contracts.” And “gay marriage.” And “special interests.” ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/38 "2004-10-05T18:52:43Z")
Hey, that’s why it’s tentative. Gotta have stakeholder input, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/39 "2004-10-05T18:52:52Z")
> [@NotMrKnowItAll](#): > > What I want to know is what are the drinking rules for this debate? A sip a snarl? A bowl an expletive? Help me out here, I don’t want to end up sober at the end. A well known national morning talk show host set out his own rules. Go to bed early and get up early in the morning. Set out a shot glass and a bottle of lemon vodka. Down one shot for each time John Edwards mentions “Haliburton” on the morning news/talk show reruns.Go on the air as scheduled, if able. Sounds reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649/40 "2004-10-05T19:08:26Z")
> [@spoke](#): > > And “gay marriage.” It will be interesting if this comes up as both men are on record as being largely in agreement on this issue, and Cheney actually disagrees with his administration here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vp-debates-thread-or-beauty-and-the-beast/267649.md?page=3)