# Vulgarity? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 13, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740 "2017-10-13T17:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/41 "2017-10-13T23:26:38Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I add people to that because they’re regular posters, not because they may or may not be friends. I add posters to it who I don’t even like or who I know aren’t too fond of me…simply because I use it as a way to find posts/topics fast of regular, old time, solid posters… > > …and (slightly) as a relaxation thing. > > But it doesn’t really have anything to do with how I feel about the poster. I knew that. It was a joke. I am a no emoji person. Don’t know why but there it is. But we could be friends in life and not even know it. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/42 "2017-10-13T23:33:14Z")
That’s true. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/43 "2017-10-14T00:33:15Z")
If we’re still discussing this, “hot and bothered,” to me, is absolutely contextual and not de facto sexual. It can be sexual, but it’s just as often just means “agitated, angry.” Just Google “What’s got you so hot and bothered?” and see the examples. To say they’re all riffing on the sexual meaning of the phrase is odd, to me. It’s equivalent to me in connotation and meaning as “what’s got your dander up” or “what’s raising your cackles” or phrases of that nature. Learning that some people only know it as a sexual phrase is quite surprising to me. The earliest sites I can find of it are from the late 1800s. Here’s one from the Annals of the American Academy of Politcal and Social Science, 1890: :"Aren’t they always having arguments in Congress and getting themselves hot and bothered about something or other? " [Link, but the phrase appears in the search results, so you can’t see it on that page, and supposedly it appears in the 1890 edition.](https://books.google.com/books?id=JVEqAQAAMAAJ&q=%22hot+and+bothered%22&dq=%22hot+and+bothered%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjomuCj7O7WAhWb2YMKHQJUAZIQ6AEIPzAE) Clearly, no sexual meaning is intended at all. It’s just a straighforward reading of the word “hot” (as in angry or agitated) and “bothered.” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/44 "2017-10-14T01:02:24Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Doesn’t matter (to me at any rate) whether it’s sexual or not; it implies “you aren’t thinking with your rational brain”. Another of that ilk is “Methinks someone forgot to take his afternoon meds”. Yet another is “Ooh is it that time of the month for you or something?”. They’re all a form of _ad hominem_, an attack on the poster and not the logic of what they’ve posted. I don’t know as how I’d make them “against the rules” but they’re bad form. Where does “You pulled it out of your ass” come in in terms of good form and “ad hominem,” and sexual suggestiveness for that matter? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/45 "2017-10-14T01:10:25Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I have never ever heard, seen or read the phrase “hot and bothered” without having sexual connection to it. hot and bothered adjective phrase Angry; fiercely indignant; pissed off, steamed up: Now don’t get all hot and bothered just because he didn’t call (1921+) > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hot--and--bothered)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! Not so Idle as we thought eh? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/46 "2017-10-14T01:25:00Z")
It doesn’t matter, I’d have given you a note for it too. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/47 "2017-10-14T01:35:47Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > It doesn’t matter, I’d have given you a note for it too. I think you’d be upset at being dinged for someone else’s crudity, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/48 "2017-10-14T02:09:15Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I think you’d be upset at being dinged for someone else’s crudity, though. You’ve continued to ask the same questions throughout this thread. They be been answered in post #19 by me, and since I’m the one who gave the mod note, I think that’s about as direct an answer as is available. Do you understand the answer? If you disagree I’m comfortable with that, but if you don’t understand I can try to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/49 "2017-10-14T02:25:56Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Where does “You pulled it out of your ass” come in in terms of good form and “ad hominem,” and sexual suggestiveness for that matter? I think it’s more scatological (fecal) than sexual, but your mileage may vary. It’s not directly ad hominem though — it’s an attack on the other person’s citation, their empirical or logistical support for the claims they’ve made in the debate, saying (not very politely) “Your so-called support for your claim is shit, it doesn’t bolster your claim at all”. It’s not ad hominem because it isn’t against the person, it’s against the person’s argument — even though it’s abusively phrased. In contrast, a person’s being “hot and bothered” (whether for sexual reasons, anger reasons, or reasons of broken air conditioning) doesn’t have a damn thing to do with their arguments or the validity thereof, and to the extent that “hot and bothered” translates as “your state of mind is kind of messed up”, that reads to me as an attempt to discredit the PERSON as an illicit way of avoiding engagement with their POINT. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/50 "2017-10-14T03:04:47Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I think it’s more scatological (fecal) than sexual, but your mileage may vary. It’s not directly ad hominem though — it’s an attack on the other person’s citation, their empirical or logistical support for the claims they’ve made in the debate, saying (not very politely) “Your so-called support for your claim is shit, it doesn’t bolster your claim at all”. It’s not ad hominem because it isn’t against the person, it’s against the person’s argument — even though it’s abusively phrased. > > In contrast, a person’s being “hot and bothered” (whether for sexual reasons, anger reasons, or reasons of broken air conditioning) doesn’t have a damn thing to do with their arguments or the validity thereof, and to the extent that “hot and bothered” translates as “your state of mind is kind of messed up”, that reads to me as an attempt to discredit the PERSON as an illicit way of avoiding engagement with their POINT. I was addressing their point of saying I pulled it out of my ass, if that indeed was their argument. How do you diagram that? Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/51 "2017-10-14T03:14:02Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You’ve continued to ask the same questions throughout this thread. They be been answered in post #19 by me, and since I’m the one who gave the mod note, I think that’s about as direct an answer as is available. Do you understand the answer? If you disagree I’m comfortable with that, but if you don’t understand I can try to clarify. I accept your explanation. If you were wrong about my usage, my language, and my intent sir, that’s on your conscience. I am done. I’m sorry if you haven’t enjoyed the exploration here into aspects of this. I thought you might read on after you finished the subject with post 19, but maybe you didn’t. I don’t see how to read the subsequent posts as a repetition of the same question though. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/52 "2017-10-14T10:33:47Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I have never ever heard, seen or read the phrase “hot and bothered” without having sexual connection to it. However I would never have thought of it as having any sexual conotation. Maybe in different areas? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/53 "2017-10-14T15:54:07Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > However I would never have thought of it as having any sexual conotation. Maybe in different areas? To be fair it was said in the context of a lot of pulling things out of asses. It’s just that I wasn’t the one pimping that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/54 "2017-10-14T18:25:59Z")
Maybe it’s an age thing, but it always had a sexual connotation for me, too. Per the top definition in the Urban Dictionary: > [@](#): > > **hot and bothered** > > To become sexually aroused to the point where you are unable to think clearly. Now, this is not a universal understanding (per the other posts in this thread), but since it was a mod note and not a warning, it would seem that all is OK with the world. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/55 "2017-10-14T18:52:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe it’s an age thing, but it always had a sexual connotation for me, too. Per the top definition in the Urban Dictionary: I don’t think it’s an age thing, because I’m almost 60, and while I am aware of the sexual definition, it’s generally meant “upset and pissed off” to me. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/56 "2017-10-14T19:01:09Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > While I personally don’t think it’s the friendliest construction, it’s similar in nature to challenging the basis for a claim. Similarly, calling an argument “bullshit” carries the same implication. Calls for a cite, calls to support a claim, assertions that claims have poor or no evidence to support them, these are all fertile ground in Great Debates. I think the best way to rebut or address these are to support whatever claim or argument is being made. > > If you think something crosses the line, then please report it. Tit for tat isn’t consistent with the idea that the idiom is personally offensive. In this instance, the usage did not seem to be any particular rule violation. > I interpret this phrase to be sexual in nature. I acknowledge that there are multiple meanings and that it is not necessarily sexual. Because there is ambiguity, my comment in this instance was a note. If it was clear the comment was sexual in nature then my comment would have been a warning because there is a clear and specific rule against sexualization in this fashion. > > * * * > > Overall we strive for civil debate. Often things get heated and that’s to be expected and why we have the reporting system and moderators. Even if something when done a single time like saying something is bullshit is typically no problem, if a poster’s response contained nothing but repeating “bullshit” over and over then that would be where I’d step in to get the thread back on track. Concerning the idea that a mean response negates a complaint, an in-kind response doesn’t negate any property of the triggering action. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/57 "2017-10-14T21:15:28Z")
One last thing: Gun owners fetishism is one thing that plays a big role in the gun debates. According to my understanding you can’t accuse someone in a thread of having an erotic attachment to something, like a gun. But this is an issue in the debate much more than fantasies about antifa or black helicopters or people coming for your guns. The psychology of needing a gun to feel like an american or a man or a human, whatever, is a big deal, and it will never be discussed on the straight dope, because it’s against the rules. The psychology of needing 1000 guns to feel OK is also at issue, but the discussion ranged from 'You pulled it out of your ass" all the way to “Horseshit.” So better luck next time for the intellectuals I guess. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/58 "2017-10-14T21:22:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe it’s an age thing, but it always had a sexual connotation for me, too. Per the top definition in the Urban Dictionary: > > Now, this is not a universal understanding (per the other posts in this thread), but since it was a mod note and not a warning, it would seem that all is OK with the world. The Urban dictionary is always going to have the most edgy meaning “on the street,” which is by default always going to be about sex drugs or music somehow, at this point in our american greatness. In fact that is what the Urban Dictionary is selling: updating shit for the street. Log in every day for a new word…With a phrase going back 100 years you might get info that involved modding of the original meaning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/59 "2017-10-14T21:38:31Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The Urban dictionary is always going to have the most edgy meaning “on the street,” > which is by default always going to be about sex drugs or music somehow, at this point in our american greatness. In fact that is what the Urban Dictionary is selling: updating shit for the street. Log in every day for a new word…With a phrase going back 100 years you might get info that involved modding of the original meaning. So what? The point is, the phrase can and is used in a way that has a sexual context. Now you know, and you leaned that without anything going on your permanent record. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740/60 "2017-10-14T21:51:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So what? The point is, the phrase can and is used in a way that has a sexual context. Now you know, and you leaned that without anything going on your permanent record. So what? The urban dictionary is going to give you the answer that you knew you were looking for, as opposed to the actual usages that might apply. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vulgarity/798740.md?page=4)