# VW diesel lawsuits -- what would you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963 "2015-12-09T16:42:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/21 "2015-12-10T18:47:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I still don’t fully understand exactly what the problem was, but AIUI the issue was that they wanted to reduce the amount of blue urea stuff used per vehicle to keep costs down. So can’t they just… put that stuff back in, and restore emissions control without affecting performance? Only a few of the affected cars are equipped with the urea system at all. Installing one is a possible fix, but it’s not clear whether that’s really going to be feasible or not. More likely the fix is going to be flashing the computers so the cars are in the de-tuned “emission test mode” all the time. Of course even if the fix is to add in a urea system (or turn on an existing system so it actually uses an appreciable amount of fluid) that’s still something you as the owner might want to avoid, the lives of those 59 people notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/22 "2015-12-10T19:16:15Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > they’ve always been _able_ to meet the standards, The NPR article says that VW couldn’t meet the standards in time for a deadline. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/23 "2015-12-10T19:28:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I wouldn’t be too sure about that. Most class actions involve a great deal of litigation over class certification, which is hard to get. By the time that’s over the class representative is rarely going to want to litigate liability and damages, which might take another 10 years with appeals. So they take a nice cash settlement and everyone else gets a coupon, or whatever. > > In this case, liability should be relatively easy to establish (though damages will be limited), so assuming a class is certified the settlement should be bigger than normal. Cash rather than coupons, in other words. > > I can’t imagine I would want to bother pursuing my own litigation, whether in a small claims proceeding or elsewhere. Although most of this story is common knowledge it would cost you a few hundred dollars at a minimum to find a witness qualified to testify on liability. You might get away with introducing VW’s press statements as evidence for some of your case, but most likely you’d need two expert witnesses if not more. > > In other words, your court costs will be more than your damages; fine if you win, and the other party pays, but a nightmare if you lose (especially since you are already out a ton of resale value on your diesel). In my experience the only one that get anything out of a Class Action suit are the lawyers, so it’s not surprising to see a lawyer promoting them. Take a look at this case from the cite by **Ravenman** : > **[Woman Wins Small Claims Suit Against Honda Over Mileage](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/woman-wins-small-claims-suit-honda-mileage/story?id=15493339)** > > A Southern California woman has won her case against Honda in small claims court, where she argued Civic Hybrid cars failed to live up to their advertised mileage. A Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner today awarded Heather Peters $9,867, The... The woman got $9,867. The class action suits are expected to pay out \*“proposed settlements would give each class member $100 to $200, and the plaintiffs’ attorneys would get $8.4 million.” \* So, you get 1% of the proper amount if you’re in a class action suit. I have actually had several, where I got my letter- the letter explained i might get something like $5. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/24 "2015-12-10T19:33:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The NPR article says that VW couldn’t meet the standards in time for a deadline. There’s no particularly insurmountable engineering hurtle to meeting the emissions standards (which I think was **JZ** ’s point) it’s just that VW hasn’t been able to get a fix together fast enough in order to do the recertification that the EPA is demanding in time for them to sell any more 2016 model year TDI’s. Which, unfortunately for them, includes a whole bunch of cars they already built which are now in limbo. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/25 "2015-12-10T19:48:18Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Which, unfortunately for them, includes a whole bunch of cars they already built which are now in limbo. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/26 "2015-12-10T21:20:20Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > There’s no particularly insurmountable engineering hurtle to meeting the emissions standards (which I think was **JZ** ’s point) it’s just that VW hasn’t been able to get a fix together fast enough in order to do the recertification that the EPA is demanding in time for them to sell any more 2016 model year TDI’s. Which, unfortunately for them, includes a whole bunch of cars they already built which are now in limbo. You’ve mostly got it. They were able to make the engines pass on the test rolls, which means the cars are _capable_ of meeting the standards. but the PCM calibration which enabled it to pass would have had enough trade-offs in driveability and/or fuel economy where it wouldn’t have been acceptable to customers. Basically the worst ones are the cars without selective catalytic reduction; they tried using a “lean NOx adsorber” and at test time they enabled a LOT more EGR flow to reduce the amount of NOx the engine was generating. But the “real world” calibration just overwhelmed the adsorber. Those cars are going to be costly to fix because they probably have no choice but to retrofit them with an AdBlue SCR system. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/27 "2015-12-10T21:30:00Z")
I wouldn’t do anything, because I detest the US compo culture and hate that it is growing over here also. I also wouldn’t pretend for one second that I was actually affected by the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/28 "2015-12-10T21:40:10Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I also wouldn’t pretend for one second that I was actually affected by the issue. I bought a car because I was told it was low emissions, yet had high performance. Achieving #1 will almost certainly mean giving up #2. Furthermore, the fact that VW just flat out lied about its product means that the value of the car has dropped by a few thousand dollars, most likely. If I had crashed the car and wrecked the frame, I can understand that the resale value of the car will be diminished because of my negligence. But why should I be stuck with a loss because a corporation literally lied through its teeth about its product? I am most certainly not seeking to become wealthy for buying the wrong car. But I think it is fair to expect that I be made whole after being defrauded. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963/29 "2015-12-10T23:24:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But I think it is fair to expect that I be made whole after being defrauded. Sure. Go for it. I’ll bet those issues have really been a struggle for you. I wouldn’t though. Thats just me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-diesel-lawsuits-what-would-you-do/739963.md?page=1)