# VW may reconsider expanding in the south due to anti-union push **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738 "2014-02-19T22:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/1 "2014-02-19T22:33:05Z")
Hahahahahahaha. I hope these people have teeth within the company. > **[Volkswagen official threatens to block expansion if workers won't unionize |...](https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/feb/19/volkswagen-official-threatens-block-expansion-if-w/)** > > Volkswagen's top labor representative threatened today to try to block further investments by the German carmaker in the U.S. South if its workers there are not unionized, Reuters reported today. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/2 "2014-02-19T22:40:32Z")
Who are you Pitting here? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/3 "2014-02-19T22:42:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Who are you Pitting here? Teeth apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/4 "2014-02-19T23:04:46Z")
That’s odd… people were saying before the vote that there wouldn’t be much expansion if people started to unionize, and now that the vote has been to not unionize, they’re saying they’re won’t be much expansion? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/5 "2014-02-19T23:14:05Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > That’s odd… people were saying before the vote that there wouldn’t be much expansion if people started to unionize, and now that the vote has been to not unionize, they’re saying they’re won’t be much expansion? Different people say different things for different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/6 "2014-02-19T23:18:43Z")
Different people. Sen. Bob Corker claimed to have inside info that VW would build a new SUV at the plant if it didn’t unionize. Here, we have a VW labor representative saying that his colleagues won’t vote for expansion without a union in place. Either Corker got a bum tip (or made it up), or VW management has different plans than VW’s labor representatives. The right to unionize includes the right to not unionize. Punishing the workers for choosing not to unionize is just as bad as punishing them for unionizing. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/7 "2014-02-19T23:35:23Z")
Corker is an utter shithead. A Human turd, & a liar from way back. I live in Tennessee. And the **Powers That Be** would rather lose VW that give Unions a foothold. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/8 "2014-02-19T23:38:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Who are you Pitting here? Republicans who claimed a union would eliminate jobs. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/9 "2014-02-20T00:37:28Z")
Maybe the point isn’t UAW, it is the structure of these “Works Councils”. It seems that the US is somewhat unusual in that management thinks the workers can’t possibly recognize problems and/or formulate solutions and/or improvements. Other places value having the eyes and hands actually doing the work also evaluate the process. The old “Shut Up! I’m paying you hang the damned door, not tell me the holes don’t align!”. “If I wanted your opinion, Id ask for it!”. I for one would like to know if the workers are coming up with kludges to get the damned thing together. US corporate mental is noted for not agreeing with that position. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/10 "2014-02-20T01:00:43Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Maybe the point isn’t UAW, it is the structure of these “Works Councils”. > It seems that the US is somewhat unusual in that management thinks the workers can’t possibly recognize problems and/or formulate solutions and/or improvements. That would be a [soviet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_(council)#Imperial_Russia)! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/11 "2014-02-20T03:31:05Z")
Now now, Corker just has VW’s best interests at heart, as he made clear by [his consternation last fall when VW management expressed interest in discussing unionization for the Tennessee workers:](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/corker-calls-vw-talks-uaw-incomprehensible) > [@](#): > > Volkswagen would become a “laughingstock” if it goes through with a deal to have the United Auto Workers represent workers at its Tennessee plant, U.S. Sen. Bob Corker said Tuesday. > > The Tennessee Republican told The Associated Press in a phone interview that he was dismayed when VW last week sent a letter to employees regarding its discussion with the UAW about creating a German-style works council at the Chattanooga plant. > > “For management to invite the UAW in is almost beyond belief,” Corker said. “They will become the object of many business school studies — and I’m a little worried could become a laughingstock in many ways — if they inflict this wound.” […] > > The UAW’s top organizing official in Tennessee, Regional Director Gary Casteel, called Corker’s comments “ludicrous” and said Volkswagen wants the works council because its other factories have been successful due to collaborative relationships between management and workers. So even if workers want the union and management would be willing to accept the union, they still should reject the union, because Senator Corker knows better than they do what would be good for them. What was that again about “nanny government”?.. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/12 "2014-02-20T08:48:32Z")
The former slave-holding states still want cheap labor - it is their biggest draw - Come Down Here! Pay peanuts? No environmental crap? Hire and fire all you want! They don’t believe anybody would move there if they had to pay Northern wages. Hell, in 1961, my father’s company was bought and moved from Ohio to Indiana - just to get cheaper workers. Why they didn’t go whole-hog and move to Mississippi is because they needed experienced factory workers, and the little town in IN was home of huge manufacturer of related products - lots of folks raised to be factory workers. Organized labor is viewed as almost as big a threat to those folks as was Abolition earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/13 "2014-02-20T13:56:19Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The right to unionize includes the right to not unionize. Punishing the workers for choosing not to unionize is just as bad as punishing them for unionizing. They’re not punishing the workers who voted against it. They are reconsidering expansion. Companies get to shout from dawn till dusk about how even a whiff of unionization will send workers, communities, and the entire country to the poorhouse. And they also act on it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/14 "2014-02-20T14:53:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Now now, Corker just has VW’s best interests at heart, as he made clear by [his consternation last fall when VW management expressed interest in discussing unionization for the Tennessee workers:](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/corker-calls-vw-talks-uaw-incomprehensible) > > So even if workers want the union and management would be willing to accept the union, they still should reject the union, because Senator Corker knows better than they do what would be good for them. > > What was that again about “nanny government”?.. I’m not sure what you mean. While I grant there’s no official, sanctioned definition of the phrase, what I have always pictured as “nanny government,” is the imposition of coddling laws, regulations, or processes by the government designed to save people from themselves as opposed to permitting personal freedom and allowing personal responsibility for poor choices. Corker is not, so far as I can tell, actually doing anything other than speaking his views. So I’d say it’s not a good example of nanny government. It’s a United States Senator talking about his opinion. As a U.S. Senator, Corker is assigned to the Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs committee, the Special Committee on Aging, and is the ranking member of Foreign Relations. The U.S. Senate does not have any practical way to address the choices of Volkswagon’s labor or management in any event. Can you explain how you feel this represents an example of the nanny state in action? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/15 "2014-02-20T15:59:57Z")
If the issue is that the Germans do not want to build a factory without the employees being unionized, they need to understand that in the US in many states, the decision to unionize or to not unionize rests with the workers, not the factory management. My families knitting mills resisted being unionized by employee vote for close to 40 years before we sold the mills. The unions were pissed they could not get a toehold in the mills, but it wasn’t _us_ telling them they couldn’t unionize, it was our employees. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/16 "2014-02-20T16:03:00Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The right to unionize includes the right to not unionize. Punishing the workers for choosing not to unionize is just as bad as punishing them for unionizing. The vote not to unionize was coerced. It was made under the threat that their jobs might be lost and new jobs would not materialize for their neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/17 "2014-02-20T16:07:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t explain > Corker is not, so far as I can tell, actually doing anything other than speaking his views. So I’d say it’s not a good example of nanny government. It’s a United States Senator talking about his opinion. As a U.S. Senator, Corker is assigned to the Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs committee, the Special Committee on Aging, and is the ranking member of Foreign Relations. The U.S. Senate does not have any practical way to address the choices of Volkswagon’s labor or management in any event. > > Can you explain how you feel this represents an example of the nanny state in action? I can’t explain how **Kimstu** feels that this represents and example of the nanny state in action, but I can take exception to the way you characterized Sen. Corker’s remarks. They most decidedly were NOT his opinion. If you’re going to cling to that, perhaps you’d be good enough to offer some examples of what he said and explain how they are his opinions. Here, let’s start with this one: [ > [@Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tennessee)](#): > > I’ve had conversations today and based on those am assured that should the workers vote against the UAW, Volkswagen will announce in the coming weeks that it will manufacture its new mid-size SUV here in Chattanooga. ]([Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](http://news.yahoo.com/tennessee-senator-says-vw-product-way-uaw-union-022622568--sector.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/18 "2014-02-20T16:17:08Z")
Of the 20 members of the VW group’s supervisory council, 10 are elected by the workforce, and 2 represent the state of Lower Saxony, at present governed by a Social Democrat/Green coalition. (the rest: 5 from Piëch/Porsche families, 2 from Quatar, 1 Swedish banker). [cite](http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/investor_relations/corporate_governance/supervisory_board.html). Quite how Mr. Corker thought that that board would like keeping organized labour out is not entirely clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/19 "2014-02-20T16:17:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean. While I grant there’s no official, sanctioned definition of the phrase, what I have always pictured as “nanny government,” is the imposition of coddling laws, regulations, or processes by the government designed to save people from themselves as opposed to permitting personal freedom and allowing personal responsibility for poor choices. > > Corker is not, so far as I can tell, actually doing anything other than speaking his views. So I’d say it’s not a good example of nanny government. It’s a United States Senator talking about his opinion. As a U.S. Senator, Corker is assigned to the Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs committee, the Special Committee on Aging, and is the ranking member of Foreign Relations. The U.S. Senate does not have any practical way to address the choices of Volkswagon’s labor or management in any event. > > Can you explain how you feel this represents an example of the nanny state in action? I don’t necessarily disagree with you regarding the phrase ‘nanny state’, Bricker. However, it’s pretty clear that Corker was doing more than expressing his opinion with no potential influence over events. It’s clear that Corker - along with other Republican leaders in Tennessee - was threatening his own constituents in an attempt to influence the votes. By implying that other jobs and manufacturers - including expansion of VW - would not get involved with Tennessee during the run up to the election Corker did indeed influence the voting and potential growth of jobs in his own state. With VW now considering - if they are - locating future plants outside the area where such tactics are used, it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out. At a minimum, it may be a minor issue in the upcoming McConnell/Lunderson-Grimes race. McConnell stayed largely silent on the issue over the last month or so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738/20 "2014-02-20T17:55:41Z")
They might well be thinking “If these people have no qualms about using extortion and legislative power on their own people, what’s to stop them from using it on us?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vw-may-reconsider-expanding-in-the-south-due-to-anti-union-push/681738.md?page=2)