# W. Herzog- what he refuses to reveal on film? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-herzog-what-he-refuses-to-reveal-on-film/592330 "2011-08-11T14:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ecoaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@ecoaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ecoaster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-herzog-what-he-refuses-to-reveal-on-film/592330/1 "2011-08-11T14:01:59Z")
(spoilers for _Grizzly Man_ and _The White Diamond_) W. Herzog seems to make these cinematic/directorial decisions not to reveal things on film that the camera has captured: In Grizzly Man he chooses not to play audio of Treadwell’s final moments as he is attacked by a bear. In White Diamond, he won’t show footage of what is behind Kaieteur Falls in Guyana, out of respect for a local guy who says the images shouldn’t be public (basically because it is an untouched and mystical place and that video would debase/spoil the otherworldly element of a place perhaps no humans have seen). I know there have been other posts here about Herzog’s films, but I’m curious if it bothers you that Herzog gets so intimately involved in his own story and then teases the viewer by not revealing things? He holds the cards close to his chest and chooses to not let the viewer fully in. His rationale in both cases I think is admirable but what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-herzog-what-he-refuses-to-reveal-on-film/592330/2 "2011-08-11T14:27:19Z")
I respect the decision not to show play Treadwell’s death tape. IMHO it would have been distasteful. It may also have been that the audio was not so much horrifying as chaotic and difficult to interpret. Seeing Herzog listen to the tape and then say “this horrible, we should destroy it” might be more effective filmmaking. (OTOH, I seem to remember there are several minutes of audio of the bear basically eating Treadwell alive while he groans in agony so it might have just been that grim.) I didn’t see White Diamond. It sounds like a more clear-cut “tease” but again it may be that the video quality was bad and leaving it up to the viewer’s imagination worked better. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-herzog-what-he-refuses-to-reveal-on-film/592330/3 "2011-08-11T14:43:18Z")
I can’t comment on White Diamond, but Treadwell’s death tape is available online (or was as of a few months ago). It’s pretty horrifying. I can totally understand not including the audio. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-herzog-what-he-refuses-to-reveal-on-film/592330/4 "2011-08-11T16:05:02Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I can’t comment on White Diamond, but Treadwell’s death tape is available online (or was as of a few months ago). It’s pretty horrifying. I can totally understand not including the audio. I’m pretty sure you’re talking about a fake. Supposedly, the real audio has never been released, and only a few people have been allowed to listen to it. > [@](#): > > **Frequently Asked Question** > Have you listened to the supposedly “real death audio” that is floating around on the internet, including UTube and is it real? > I have heard it and no it is not real but a fake or spoof. Jewel Palovak still holds the original tape and has no plans to release it. I hope that she never does. There is now a second fake version posted on UTube. The publisher of this latest UTube version stated to me in an email that he knew the audio he labeled as real, is in fact a fake. It was posted to draw traffic to his UTube page. > There are several ways to determine whether one of these recordings is real or not. Just recently I was given access to the first 2 minutes of the 6 minute tape. There are two sounds that have not been published that are unmistakeable and have been missing in each fake tape that I have heard. All fake recordings so far have been under 3 minutes in length and the real tape is 6 minutes. As I reported above in my investigation the bear is nearly silent. Bears typically make very little sounds, and each fake recording has the sound of a bear roaring, growling, and making all sorts of noises. In movies, bear noises are dubbed in electronically. > **[Night of the Grizzly – A True Story Of Love And Death In The Wilderness](http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html)** > > Tim Treadwell Incident - Full Report and Examination ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-herzog-what-he-refuses-to-reveal-on-film/592330/5 "2011-08-11T16:09:48Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’re talking about a fake. Supposedly, the real audio has never been released, and only a few people have been allowed to listen to it. > > [http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim\_Treadwell.html](http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html) Good to know. Thanks…although I will note that the one (still a fake, I know) I heard had no dubbed bear sounds. It was eerily silent except for the groans and occasional scream.