# W: The lesson the Vietnam War teaches Americans is "not to quit" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833 "2006-11-17T14:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/1 "2006-11-17T14:51:45Z")
At least, that’s what I heard on the radio this morning; can’t find that particular quote in any of the [newspaper](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/4341683.html) [articles](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/17/AR2006111700258.html) available online discussing W’s visit to Hanoi for the APEC summit. (He [also](http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=7c82ec1b-6bc0-4d9d-a1cd-98a6ec83a58a&k=52495) said, WRT Iraq, “We’ll succeed unless we quit.”) I seem to remember Reagan saying something almost as stupid back in the '80s – what was it – ah, yes: The lesson of Vietnam is “never to get into a war you don’t intend to win.” _sigh_ Some people never learn. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/2 "2006-11-17T15:00:24Z")
I thought the lesson of Vietnam wsas never to get involved in a land war in Asia, but perhaps W did not see The Princess Bride. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/3 "2006-11-17T15:06:50Z")
Lessons that categorically state “never get into a war” tend not to sink in very well with world leaders. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/4 "2006-11-17T15:49:11Z")
[cnn.com](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/16/bush.hanoi.ap/index.html) has this quote: > [@](#): > > The president said there was much to be learned from the divisive Vietnam War – the longest conflict in U.S. history – as his administration contemplates new strategies for the increasingly difficult war in Iraq, now in its fourth year. But his critics see parallels with Vietnam – a determined insurgency and a death toll that has drained public support – that spell danger for dragging out U.S. involvement in Iraq. > > “It’s just going to take a long period of time for the ideology that is hopeful – and that is an ideology of freedom – to overcome an ideology of hate,” Bush said after having lunch at his lakeside hotel with Australian Prime Minister John Howard, one of America’s strongest allies in Iraq, Vietnam and other conflicts. > > “We’ll succeed,” Bush added, “unless we quit.” So, in other words, stay the course. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/5 "2006-11-17T15:52:19Z")
Wait, so Bush’s message on a diplomatic mission to Vietnam is “hi, how you guys doin’ Good? That’s too bad, because on second thought, we should have killed all you guys and taken over your country a long time ago.” I mean, wtf? This is why Bush has always sucked at diplomacy. Everything is a show for Americans back home, without any clue as to what the point of diplomacy is for outside of American audiences. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/6 "2006-11-17T15:56:03Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] [cnn.com](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/16/bush.hanoi.ap/index.html) has this quote: So, in other words, stay the course. [/QUOTE] It was \*\*never \*\*stay the course, George. Sheesh. I expect better of you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/7 "2006-11-17T16:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] … perhaps W did not see The Princess Bride. [/QUOTE] Inconceivable!! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/8 "2006-11-17T16:09:41Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] It was \*\*never \*\*stay the course, George. Sheesh. I expect better of you. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I should have given the entire mission statement: Stay the course! Slay the horse! Flay the corpse! ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/9 "2006-11-17T16:14:37Z")
The rumblings in the conservative reality is that all this violence in Iraq is an Islamic form of the Tet offensive ([example](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222598,00.html)) so don’t worry you spineless liberals, we’re gonna stay in there like we **should have** in the 70s! Fool me once, shame on you, uh…can’t get fooled again? Once bitten…bring back pie? Whatever. You get the idea. We’re gonna stay and make some more mass graves because we can’t let Saddam beat us. There will be no mass grave gap! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/10 "2006-11-17T16:15:09Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] I thought the lesson of Vietnam wsas never to get involved in a land war in Asia, but perhaps W did not see The Princess Bride. [/QUOTE] Actually that was the lesson learned from Korea. Forgotten again for Vietnam. Remembered and then forgotten again. Thankfully it is all irrelevant now because the freedom thirsty secular masses of Iran are already stockpiling rose petals. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/11 "2006-11-17T16:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] Wait, so Bush’s message on a diplomatic mission to Vietnam is “hi, how you guys doin’ Good? That’s too bad, because on second thought, we should have killed all you guys and taken over your country a long time ago.” [/QUOTE] More or less my first thoughts upon reading the article. I would have given anything to know what was going though the minds of the VN state officials while they listened to this crap. I imagine they were pissing themselves either out of outrage or laughing too hard. Personally, I’ve always thought that the lesson to be learned from Viet Nam was “Don’t start a war just to fuck with a country’s internal politics, even if the leader is a real doody-head,” but what do I know? (Looks at Iraq) Well, OK, apparently, I know more than the president of my country, but still . . . What _do_ I know? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/12 "2006-11-17T16:57:22Z")
Just laying the groundwork, setting a few positions. “We would have won in Iraq, just like we would have won in Viet Nam, but the liberal wussies tied our hands…” Look for Chuck Norris to parachute into Anwar Province to free American POWs. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/13 "2006-11-17T17:04:43Z")
The lssons learned from Vietnam about how to fight an insurgency have been largely ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/14 "2006-11-17T17:12:55Z")
Even Nixon wasn’t this bad. When he went to China, did he hold a press conference in which he declared “wow, it’s really great to be here. I wish we’d continued the Korean war and thrown all you assholes out of power. Now, about those trade agreements again?” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/15 "2006-11-17T17:21:42Z")
NOTHING got by Tricky Dick. [When he visited the Great Wall,](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/china/sfeature/nixon.html) he said “I think that you would have to conclude that this is a great wall.” One never can underestimate the diplomatic skills of Mr. Bush. If it wasn’t for his father’s influence he could well be rotting in the jungle there. The Domino Theory was just as much a non-threat as Saddam’s WMD. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/16 "2006-11-17T17:22:53Z")
His suggestion that the US should have stayed even longer in Vietnam is especially risible in light of the fact that he himself was a war dodger. He’s actually saying, “the US would have won in Vietnam if _those guys who actually went_ hadn’t a QUIT.” ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/17 "2006-11-17T17:27:58Z")
You know, a draft that includes Ivy-League schools and women (aka the Bushette twins) might just dramatically pull the head of this administration out of its own collective ass. Any chance Congress might help that along…? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/18 "2006-11-17T17:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Actually that was the lesson learned from Korea. Forgotten again for Vietnam. Remembered and then forgotten again. [/QUOTE] You don’t think we should have gone in to Korea? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/19 "2006-11-17T17:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] His suggestion that the US should have stayed even longer in Vietnam is especially risible in light of the fact that he himself was a war dodger. He’s actually saying, “the US would have won in Vietnam if _those guys who actually went_ hadn’t a QUIT.” [/QUOTE] Unfair. Those guys had no say in the important decisions. What he’s saying is that the U.S. would have won if the politicians stateside hadn’t quit; which is incredibly stupid, but not hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833/20 "2006-11-17T17:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] Personally, I’ve always thought that the lesson to be learned from Viet Nam was “Don’t start a war just to fuck with a country’s internal politics, even if the leader is a real doody-head,” but what do I know? [/QUOTE] I thought it was, “No good can come of getting involved in another country’s civil war.” We learned that lesson, all right. In Iraq, we went in and **created** a civil war. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w-the-lesson-the-vietnam-war-teaches-americans-is-not-to-quit/380833.md?page=2)