# W **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 2, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579 "2008-08-02T05:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/81 "2008-10-19T00:45:04Z")
I saw this movie this afternoon. The movie isn’t a Best Picture nominee, but Josh Brolin, Richard Dreyfuss, and James Cromwell deserve consideration. I liked the mix of satirical and serious. I now want to see similar treatments on Reagan, Clinton, and maybe McCain or Obama. 7.5/10 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/82 "2008-10-19T01:53:54Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > I now want to see similar treatments on Reagan, Clinton, and maybe McCain or Obama. 7.5/10 Brolin’s father James played Reagan in [a movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383139/) about the shooting (with some flashbacks). Holland Taylor played Nancy. McCain was played by [Shawn Hatosy](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0444626/) (a "Ryan Reynolds Type) in [a movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0444626/) based on his autobio. There’s currently a musical in production about the current McCain- only [one clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNhDTPl4TyI) has been released. I’ve actually wondered before who would make a really good Clinton. I can think of several actresses for Hillary. Kevin Spacey could possibly pull it off, just as I think his _Beauty_ co-star Annette Bening could be a decent Hillary. Clooney might be decent- he’s a lot better looking of course, or maybe even Russell Crowe. They’re both a lot better looking of course but Clinton’s said to be way more attractive in person than on camera. I think [Brian Stokes Mitchell](http://images.google.com/images?q=BRIAN%20STOKES%20MITCHELL&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi)would be a good Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/83 "2008-10-19T03:38:54Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > Huh? Are you at all familiar with the Oliver Stone oeuvre? Yeah, that thing about a severed hand that went around killing people was totally exaggerated and inaccurate! I’ll never trust Oliver Stone again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/84 "2008-10-19T03:54:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ve actually wondered before who would make a really good Clinton. I can think of several actresses for Hillary. Kevin Spacey could possibly pull it off, just as I think his _Beauty_ co-star Annette Bening could be a decent Hillary. Clooney might be decent- he’s a lot better looking of course, or maybe even Russell Crowe. They’re both a lot better looking of course but Clinton’s said to be way more attractive in person than on camera. Are you forgetting about _Primary Colors_, which starred John Travolta as Bubba and Emma Thompson as Hilldog (also Billy Bob Thornton as Carville)? I know it technically wasn’t really the Clintons, but it was cast as if was, and I think Travolta did a passable job. My idea for who could play Clinton for real would be George Clooney. I’m thinking take fat Clooney from _Syriana_, gray him up a little more and let him work with a dialogue coach for the accent. Can you see it? I think you need an actor who can ooze charm and charisma and Clooney has that ability. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/85 "2008-10-19T04:38:41Z")
I think he should have filmed it as a road flick. **Natural Born Leaders** with Juliette Lewis as Laura. “Hell, we’re not invadin’ anybody on our weddin’ day.” ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/86 "2008-10-19T13:43:33Z")
Sampiro writes: \> I’ve actually wondered before who would make a really good Clinton. After _Primary Colors_ came out, I thought about casting a movie about Clinton’s life. Emma Thompson, who played the Hillary-equivalent in that movie would make a good Hillary Clinton in such a film. I didn’t like John Travolta as the Bill-equivalent. Then I decided that it would be nice to cast a movie about the Clintons entirely with British actors doing American accents. How about Kenneth Branagh as Bill Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/87 "2008-10-20T19:21:14Z")
I saw it. I was surprised in the movie I got. I went in expecting Tina Fey as Sarah Palin & while that was a piece of what I got, it was not all of it. I think Stone didn’t do a straight political biography and he didn’t do a straight spoof but kind of mixed it up. I actually think Bush comes out more sympathetically than right-wing hand wringing would have guessed (or I would have guessed) before I saw it. Especially after his conversion, his faith, certainty and belief is all there and is a mixed bag but not depicted in an entirely negative light. A good example of the “truthfulness” of W. is when Bush is running for Governor of Texas. In a rushed ambush interview he spiels all kinds of mish-mashed jibberish and malapropisms. All of it came from Bush (a co-worker has one of those the Stupidest Things Politicians Have Said calendar and W is in there all the time) - but he didn’t say it all in one interview at the start of the campaign. Am I saying it was far? No. You can’t have a movie about Bush and not have him climbing around the 9-11 rubble. You can’t just refer to the 80% approval ratings and not show how he got there. W. in real life was funny in press conferences and on the campaign trail - it was rare that he didn’t work a ripple or two of laughter from the press - nothing like that is in this Movie where his on camera press actions are entirely buffoonish and stilted with quick screen cuts to Rove looking worried. FWIW Here are two sites that fact check the movie [MTV](http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1596654/story.jhtml) and [Slate](http://www.slate.com/id/2202341/) - as in life so much of what seemed the most unbelievable was true, or at least sourced elsewhere in places other than Daily Kos posts. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/88 "2008-10-20T19:47:29Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > W. in real life was funny in press conferences and on the campaign trail - it was rare that he didn’t work a ripple or two of laughter from the press I’ve heard this about both Bush and McCain. Is there, like, some video or something showing this? (About either person.) -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/89 "2008-10-20T20:20:19Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ve heard this about both Bush and McCain. > > Is there, like, some video or something showing this? (About either person.) > > -FrL- [Here](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/11/20061108-2.html) is a Transcript I can’t work Real Player for numbers but it is about 1/2 way thru Q Thank you, Mr. President. You just described the election results as a “thumping.” THE PRESIDENT: I said the cumulative – make sure – who do you write for? Q The New York Times, Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, that’s right. (Laughter.) Let’s make sure we get it – the facts. I said that the elections were close; the cumulative effect – Q Is a thumping. THE PRESIDENT: – thumping. (Laughter.) Q But the results – ## THE PRESIDENT: A polite way of saying – anyway, go ahead. (Laughter.) [Here is 2](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/09/20070920-2.html) is one Q Do you think there’s a risk of a recession? How do you rate that? THE PRESIDENT: You know, you need to talk to economists. I think I got a B in Econ 101. I got an A, however, in keeping taxes low – (laughter) – and being fiscally responsible with the people’s money. We’ve submitted a plan that will enable this budget to become balanced by 2012, so long as Congress learns to set priorities. And we can balance the budget without raising taxes. [snip] David. Welcome back. Q Thank you, Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT: Where have you been? Q I’ve been around. THE PRESIDENT: You’ve been doing those shows. (Laughter.) Really tho, if you watch almost any regular presser in its entirety not on Iraq or something he will get them going a time or two - he is very misunderestimetd in that regard IMO. I got nothing on McCain and offer no claim there ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/90 "2008-10-20T21:47:35Z")
James Cromwell as GHWB? I wonder if he ever tells his son “That’ll do.” ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/91 "2008-10-20T22:06:36Z")
Having just rewatched **Murder by Death** , I would have liked him to say, “[Something isn’t right in all of this, eh. I can feel it in my buns](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0052498/quotes),” but he said neither. I liked the movie. It obviously had a case to make, but it seemed to be more about understanding George W. Bush than accusing him (I don’t recall anything about stolen elections or family ties to the bin Ladins), and at times I really did sympathize with him. Brolin and most of the supporting cast were excellent. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/92 "2008-10-20T23:35:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The obvious. Oil. Cheney is shown giving a multi-media presentation showing how much oil is left in the world, how much is used by the US, and how the richest reserves are in Iraq and Iran. > > Basically, he gives the well-known neocon argument for using Iraq as a base to go into the real target, Iran, then starts waxing poetically about a literal “empire.” At the end of his presentation when Colin Powell (who is portrayed as the only consistent voice of reason and dissent within the Bush inner circle) asks him “So what is our exit strategy,” Cheney says “There is no exit. We stay.” > > This all comes after Cheney has been pitching one bullshit line after another about how dangerous both Iraq and Iran are. He finally just drops the pretense and admits it’s all about oil. Not to start a debate about this point, but does Stone use any type of source material for this portrayal, or is it just, let say, “artistic license” on his part? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/93 "2008-10-21T00:30:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think you need an actor who can ooze charm and charisma and Clooney has that ability. I’m not sure Clooney can do hillbilly. Also, Clinton’s a very big man. Clooney isn’t. I know they can make people seem bigger on screen, but that’s a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/94 "2008-10-21T02:10:30Z")
Clooney does Southern, if not precisely hillbilly, in _O Brother, Where Art Thou?_. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/95 "2008-10-21T04:03:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Not to start a debate about this point, but does Stone use any type of source material for this portrayal, or is it just, let say, “artistic license” on his part? A lot of Bob Woodward, who has terrific access. Then he does go on TV occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/96 "2008-10-21T04:24:18Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Not to start a debate about this point, but does Stone use any type of source material for this portrayal, or is it just, let say, “artistic license” on his part? Stone says he and the scriptwriter read 17 books on Bush. Woodward’s books were included, and he’s mentioned Richard Clarke as well. Most of the stuff inthe movie is stuff that already pretty well known and documented. There aren’t any shocking “revelations” or new conspiracy theories. The story is basically presented as what the insiders have publicly said it was. One thing Sone does, that I suppose is a little “creative,” but I don’t think dishonest, is that he has Bush say a lot of his famous Bushisms in contexts other than where he really said them. For instance, he has Bush butcher the “fool me once” saying in a Staff meeting, rather than in public. In another scene, Bush is shown delivering a series of fractured quotations to reporters when he’s first running for Gov of Texas. He really said them all, but he didn’t say them all at the same time as the movie shows. I think this is a kind of artistic license which is reasonably fair, since it’s easier to put them in a single scene, and since no words are put into his mouth that he didn’t actually say. Stone does recreate the “what mistakes have you made?” moment pretty much verbatim. I still can’t believe that Stone passed on the opportunity do do a _My Pet Goat_ scene. He must have the self-control of Ron Jeremy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/97 "2008-10-21T17:23:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Stone does recreate the “what mistakes have you made?” moment pretty much verbatim. I recall that happening at a debate, and not a press conference as shown in the movie. Am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/98 "2008-10-21T18:11:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I recall that happening at a debate, and not a press conference as shown in the movie. Am I mistaken? It was definitely a [press conference](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/13/bush.conference/index.html). I remember it well. Poor guy. They put him under the spot. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/99 "2008-10-21T23:13:53Z")
Since Clooney’s from Kentucky and his dad and the aunt he lived with are from Bristol (Virginia/Tennessee border) I’m pretty sure he can make southern if he has to, though the _Oh Brother_ role really didn’t call for it since the character’s a b.s. artist. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579/100 "2008-10-23T13:03:45Z")
Just saw it last night. I don’t have much to add here that hasn’t already been said, but I’ll agree with the overwhelming sentiment that they couldn’t have picked a better actor to portray Bush than Josh Brolin. Amazing job. On the flip-side. Thandie Newton’s portrayal of Condi was downright annoying and jarringly unrealistic. In reality, she’s an extremely intelligent and well-spoken woman. Ever since I first heard of Gen. Colin Powell during the Clinton years, I always fantasized about him being played by James Earl Jones, and was a bit disappointed that he wasn’t. Nonetheless, Jeffrey Wright did a great job. Shout-outs also go to James Cromwell for an extremely good job portraying George H.W. Bush. Toby Jones made Karl Rove _likable_ (I think I just threw up in my mouth a little). All-in-all, _W._ does a surprisingly good job of making Bush a sympathetic and likable man. I had to slap myself upside the head and remember [BBQPit]the hell he’s made our country the past 8 years.[/BBQPit] I just can’t buy that he has always tried to do the right thing all along. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/w/458579.md?page=6)