# Wachovia allowed theft from customers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183 "2008-02-11T19:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/1 "2008-02-11T19:02:44Z")
> **[Papers Show Wachovia Knew of Thefts (Published 2008)](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/business/06wachovia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)** > > The bank solicited business from companies it knew had been accused of telemarketing crimes, documents show. This article from the New York Times says Wachovia Bank allowed telemarketers to fleece their customers for years. They were repeatedly told but did not do anything about it. They were making millions off them. Don’t you just love it? Memos and communications show they were aware and lied. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/2 "2008-02-11T19:30:57Z")
Is the plural of “e-mail” now “e-mail”? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/3 "2008-02-11T22:57:06Z")
That is fucked up. If the facts are as presented in that story, i hope Wachovia goes down big time. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/4 "2008-02-11T23:04:02Z")
Crikees! 400 million? There better damn well be some bank people put in prison if these allegations turn out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/5 "2008-02-11T23:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Is the plural of “e-mail” now “e-mail”? [/QUOTE] Doesn’t AOL say “you got mails?” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/6 "2008-02-12T00:02:43Z")
I used to work for those assholes. Well, actually any large financial institution probably makes its decisions based entirely on money and what they think they can get away with, not on anything as quaint as moral considerations. Corporate entities are basically sociopaths. Still, I think I’ll close my account. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/7 "2008-02-12T00:11:44Z")
Oh great, they will designate this as a class action and the attorneys will settle for $100,000,000 in attorney fees, no admission of wrongdoing and a lollipop for each defrauded customer, six months later it will be business as usual but some pretty white chick will be killed on a tropical island or Brittany will get drunk and we will all forget about it… ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/8 "2008-02-12T00:16:49Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Oh great, they will designate this as a class action and the attorneys will settle for $100,000,000 in attorney fees, no admission of wrongdoing and a lollipop for each defrauded customer, six months later it will be business as usual but some pretty white chick will be killed on a tropical island or Brittany will get drunk and we will all forget about it… [/QUOTE] I want a lollipop! ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/9 "2008-02-12T00:52:45Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Is the plural of “e-mail” now “e-mail”? [/QUOTE] Apparently, they’re using the word “e-mail” as a collection noun, as in, when I tell my daughter Calliope to “Go get the mail from the mailbox,” she may find there one piece of mail or six. Thanks, Cally. I’m also concerned that a certain Ms. Pera, who wrote down things that part of the incriminating evidence, has left the bank and could not be found for comment. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/10 "2008-02-12T02:18:10Z")
For those of us who aren’t registered with NYT, is it really all that fucking difficult to quote the relevant portions in your post? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/11 "2008-02-12T02:19:32Z")
They gave her an all expenses paid vacation in Aruba. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/12 "2008-02-12T02:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] For those of us who aren’t registered with NYT, is it really all that fucking difficult to quote the relevant portions in your post? [/QUOTE] I’m not registered and was able to access the entire article just fine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/13 "2008-02-12T02:34:39Z")
Or you could probably get it at _Daily Kos._ Just trying to help. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/14 "2008-02-12T02:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] For those of us who aren’t registered with NYT, is it really all that fucking difficult to quote the relevant portions in your post? [/QUOTE] I’m not registered and was able to see it. Here are some juicy quotes for you: > [@](#): > > Last spring, Wachovia bank was accused in a lawsuit of allowing fraudulent telemarketers to use the bank’s accounts to steal millions of dollars from unsuspecting victims. When asked about the suit, bank executives said they had been unaware of the thefts. > > But newly released documents from that lawsuit now show that Wachovia had long known about allegations of fraud and that the bank, in fact, solicited business from companies it knew had been accused of telemarketing crimes. > > … > > Documents also show that Wachovia was alerted by other banks and federal agencies about ongoing deceptions, but that it continued to provide banking services to multiple companies that helped steal as much as $400 million from unsuspecting victims. > > “YIKES!!!” wrote one Wachovia executive in 2005, warning colleagues that an account used by telemarketers had drawn 4,500 complaints in just two months. “DOUBLE YIKES!!!” she added. “There is more, but nothing more that I want to put into a note.” ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/15 "2008-02-12T07:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] They gave her an all expenses paid vacation in Aruba. [/QUOTE] Close, she got plane tickets to the Bermuda Triangle; one way. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/16 "2008-02-12T12:55:17Z")
[QUOTE=Ale] Close, she got plane tickets to the Bermuda Triangle; one way. [/QUOTE] What is the sound something makes when it’s going over your head? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/17 "2008-02-12T15:19:20Z")
My general understanding is that banks are not liable for aiding and abetting the wrongs of another unless (1) the bank had **actual** knowledge of a **specific** wrong (mere suspicion is not enough); and (2) the bank substantially participated in the commission of that wrong. I assume the bank will argue they had no **actual** knowledge of any **specific** wrong in connection with **this** customer and **this** account. The fact Wachovia **heard** that other banks and other accounts may have had **alleged** similar problems with this client may warrant mere **suspicion** on Wachovia’s part, but does not give rise to **actual** knowledge of any **specific** wrong in committed in **this** case. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/18 "2008-02-12T15:49:22Z")
High ranking bank officials frequently warned colleagues about tele marketing fraud through its accounts. Wachovia was alerted by other banks and agencies. 400 million was stolen. This is actual knowledge but Wachovia made millions off the transactions. That is the point. They sold out their customers for money. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/19 "2008-02-12T16:08:43Z")
I’m not defending Wachovia, just speculating at their defense, FYI. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183/20 "2008-02-12T16:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=Bearflag70] I’m not defending Wachovia, just speculating at their defense, FYI. [/QUOTE] Whether or not their defense is successful the worst that will happen is they will pay a minuscule fine a few people will be fired and maybe have to settle a few lawsuits for an undisclosed amount without admitting any wrongdoing and then it will be business as usual with big corporations bilking us little people while the big fish take home ludicrous paychecks. It really is getting depressing. Enron, WorldCom, Wachovia, Oil and Gas Companies, Defense Contractors, Phone Companies with incomprehensible pricing plans, banks with hidden fees, credit card companies with usurious rates and hidden fees, mortgage companies, it never ends big companies coming up with more and more ways to dig deeper into our pockets. It seem kind of self defeating I mean who are they going to steal from when all the jobs are overseas and we are all broke? Where is the consolidation of wealth leading. When all that is left is the few Haves and the masses of Have Nots, who are the Haves going to take from? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachovia-allowed-theft-from-customers/437183.md?page=2)