# Wachowski brothers - plagiarisers. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992 "2004-12-09T20:42:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/21 "2004-12-10T00:48:00Z")
Ah, this is reputedly the script [right here](http://www.949zht.com/matrix/index7.html). (Page images.) The first page looks somewhat more literate that the attributed quotes above. Maybe I was being too credulous? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/22 "2004-12-10T00:49:11Z")
Pardon me… the _story_. _continues reading_ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/23 "2004-12-10T01:00:40Z")
Aw, crap, it’s just a couple of pages. What are shown look to be from a fairly pedestrian dystopian second-coming hack, with no similarities to _The Matrix_. Why post stuff that’s obviously unrelated. “Oooh! A baby with mysterious origins! Stalked by ‘Morning Star (Lucifer).’ Fated to bring peace on earth.” Exactly like _The Matrix!_. No, wait. It’s more like _A Canticle for Leibowitz_. Of course, it’s not _much_ like _A Canticle for Leibowitz_, but it’s _more_ like _A Canticle for Leibowitz_. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/24 "2004-12-10T01:15:23Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > And for some reason everyone who’s covering this story is presenting it as though she won the case, not that the defendants failed to have it dismissed. I wonder if this is sensationalism or _shadenfreud_. What media is covering this story? I searched Yahoo News and Google News for “Sophia Stewart” and found only a couple of mentions of the case, none from anything at all mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/25 "2004-12-10T01:55:50Z")
This isn’t going to go anywhere. Consider: > [@](#): > > The neo character is one backward No it isn’t. “one” backward is “Eno” Is she planning to sue Brian Eno, too? > [@](#): > > The old gyspy hag and the Oracle is one and the same. Unless they’re both called “Oracle,” they’re not. > [@](#): > > I have three levels of authorities ( three persons ) and the movie have the three agents. So any time you have three agents, you’re infringing? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > My Trifina & Trinity are the same character in both scripts. My rebels are same characters on the ship & only two girls. Zonia & Switch are one and the same. If they have different names, they’re different characters. > [@](#): > > My ship is called" Space Star" & theirs is the Nebekadnezar ( misspelled ). How on Earth is this a similarity? Can George Lucas sue her because his space ship is the “Millenneum Falcon” and hers is “Space Star.” :rolleyes: It appears the only reason this is proceeding is that the defendants used statute of limitations to dismiss, which is the easiest way. However, I’m sure she will be unable to prove they even saw the script, let alone stole from it. This is just a joke. You’ll never hear from it again, other than a one paragraph announcing the suit was dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/26 "2004-12-10T02:48:02Z")
Apparently this woman has never heard of archtypes when it comes to fictional characters. If Oracle is a rip off of her Grey old hag, then, by her definition, the “Hag” character is a rip off of Obi-Wan. And by golly, nobody has ever thought of having things come in groups of three before her, or using Christian symbolism. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/27 "2004-12-10T03:07:12Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > How on Earth is this a similarity? Well, if you pronounce Nebuchadnezzar wrong, they sorta rhyme, you see. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/28 "2004-12-10T03:10:06Z")
Funny, I always thought the Matrix was a ripoff of Neuromancer and the collected works of Philip K. Dick. Those are certainly more believable as source material than a hackish manuscript that was never even published. Besides, as **RealityChuck** pointed out, all those similarities are really archetypes. The number three has religious and philosophical connotations and is used a lot in fiction. All the characters in the Matrix are archetypal–Neo is the hero, the Oracle is the mentor/herald. The idea of a hero accessing a true reality beyond this one is nothing new–it predates not just Sophia Stewart but also Gibson and Dick. Also, that excerpt from her book was terrible. Nobody would slog through all that poorly written exposition at the beginning of a book. Tiger Woods of science fiction my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/29 "2004-12-10T03:50:14Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Tiger Woods of science fiction my ass. It’s a fair comparison, if we were discussing Woods’ ability as a pole-vaulter. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/30 "2004-12-10T04:30:56Z")
Did anyone think the Matrix was original? Fresh maybe but original? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/31 "2004-12-10T05:02:22Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Did anyone think the Matrix was original? Fresh maybe but original? I didn’t. It was a lot of old ideas done in a very cool way. There is nothing new under the sun…but execution means a hell of a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/32 "2004-12-10T05:10:27Z")
I thought this was going to be about Grant Morrisson’s _The Invisibles_. There are so many similarities between the first “Matrix” film and _The Invisibles_ that entire 5+ page sections of the book read like storyboards for it. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/33 "2004-12-10T05:27:32Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > And for some reason everyone who’s covering this story is presenting it as though she won the case I don’t think anyone _is_ covering it, except one college newspaper which got the story wrong. Unfortunately, this one wildly incorrect story is spreading to every corner of the internet. General rule, I think – if a story in a college paper sounds to impossible to be true, check the New York Times before you believe it. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/34 "2004-12-10T05:28:33Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > You have to bring more than a scintilla of evidence for _every_ issue for which you bear the burden of persuasion. I hope I might be forgiven for speaking in a non-technical way to a lay audience, **Kel**. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/35 "2004-12-10T12:56:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > No it isn’t. “one” backward is “Eno” Is she planning to sue Brian Eno, too? Heh heh heh heh! ---
**Author:** ![paulberserker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@paulberserker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulberserker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/36 "2004-12-10T16:29:40Z")
What about the guys who wrote Ghost in the Shell? Theres plenty of similarity in there too. There was a website I saw once comparing it step by step but I can’t find it through google. Whats her claim on the Terminator movies? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/37 "2004-12-10T19:32:20Z")
What about _Overdrawn at the Memory Bank__snicker_ Guy’s stuck in a computer, can stop it at will, etc. Admittedly, though, I haven’t seen any of _The Matrix_ movies, so I don’t know how similiar they are. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/38 "2004-12-10T19:44:06Z")
I would say the second and third _Matrix_ movies are probably inferior to _Overdrawn at the Memory Bank_. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/39 "2004-12-10T19:52:26Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > “one” backward is “Eno” Is she planning to sue Brian Eno, too? That would be awesome, because Brian Eno did the music for the Lynch version of _Dune_, and in the book Paul Atreides is blinded, yet can still “see” perfectly well because of his powers. It’s all coming clear now. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992/40 "2004-12-10T19:57:35Z")
> [@paulberserker](#): > > What’s her claim on the Terminator movies? Dystopian, mechanized future. Quasi-mystical hero leads rebellion. Bad guys want to stop him. I’m not sure how that’ll play in court. I mean, Harlan Ellison already successfully sued because _The Terminator_ was supposedly a pastiche of stories he wrote in the seventies. It’s ridiculous to sue over basic sci-fi concepts that have already been thoroughly explored. You might as well say that _The Matrix_ is cribbed from E.M. Forster’s _The Machine Stops_, which was written in 1909. After all, its theme is people living in an artificial, mechanical world, isolated and alienated from authentic reality. > [@](#): > > “You talk as if a god had made the Machine,” cried the other. > > “I believe that you pray to it when you are unhappy. Men made it, do not forget that. Great men, but men. The Machine is much, but it is not everything. I see something like you in this plate, but I do not see you. I hear something like you through this telephone, but I do not hear you. That is why I want you to come. Pay me a visit, so that we can meet face to face, and talk about the hopes that are in my mind.” […] > > “Mother, you must come, if only to explain to me what is the harm of visiting the surface of the earth.” > > “No harm,” she replied, controlling herself. “But no advantage. The surface of the earth is only dust and mud, no advantage. The surface of the earth is only dust and mud, no life remains on it, and you would need a respirator, or the cold of the outer air would kill you. One dies immediately in the outer air.” […] > > “The Machine has been most merciful.” > > “I prefer the mercy of God.” > > “By that superstitious phrase, do you mean that you could live in the outer air?” > > “Yes.” > > “Have you ever seen, round the vomitories, the bones of those who were extruded after the Great Rebellion?” > > “Yes.” > > “They were left where they perished for our edification. A few crawled away, but they perished, too - who can doubt it? And so with the Homeless of our own day. The surface of the earth supports life no longer.” […] > > But Kuno, is it true ? Are there still men on the surface of the earth ? Is this - tunnel, this poisoned darkness - really not the end?" > > He replied: > > "I have seen them, spoken to them, loved them. They are hiding in the midst and the ferns until our civilization stops. Today they are the Homeless - tomorrow ------ " > > “Oh, tomorrow - some fool will start the Machine again, tomorrow.” > > “Never,” said Kuno, “never. Humanity has learnt its lesson.” The Wachowski’s were _obviously_ copying _The Machine Stops_. Or maybe _THX-1138_. Or _The Truman Show_. Or _Dark City_. Or _Watership Down_, perhaps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wachowski-brothers-plagiarisers/278992.md?page=3)