# Waco Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079 "2004-01-26T01:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/21 "2004-01-27T07:20:07Z")
> [@Alereon](#): > > **ambushed** : In your reply to **LordVor** , you edited my name to “aileron”. Not really. It was **LordVor** who misspelled your handle; all I did was use the built-in “reply” button which automatically copied his post verbatim, misspelling and all. ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/22 "2004-01-27T07:31:30Z")
**ambushed** : **LordVor** spelled my name correctly in his post. Scroll up and take a look. Did you hose it with a spellcheck or something? ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/23 "2004-01-27T08:34:12Z")
> [@Alereon](#): > > **ambushed** : **LordVor** spelled my name correctly in his post. Scroll up and take a look. Did you hose it with a spellcheck or something? You’re right, and I sincerely apologize. I feel especially dumb after disputing it. I have no idea what I did wrong, and I certainly didn’t do it intentionally, but that I erred is undeniable. Again, I apologize. I’ll see to it that I get it right in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/24 "2004-01-27T08:49:43Z")
**ambushed** : Apology accepted, to err is human. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/25 "2004-01-27T12:53:34Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Not only did the arson investigators study a kind of flammable gas that wasn’t even USED at Waco to come up with their conclusion that the Davidians started the fire… Hmmm… Upon further reflection and reading, it seems you may have been trying to say something very different than what your words actually say. Your actual words, interpreted literally and in the context of the discussion, represent several falsehoods (as I’ve indicated above), but you may have _meant_ to say something significantly different; i.e., that the early arson report erroneously reported and analyzed the flammability of CN gas (which was not used at Waco) instead of CS gas, which is what was actually used. But the fact that that team mistakenly thought that CN gas was used was accidental; it was not part of any deliberate effort to mislead anyone. It was a bureaucratic foul-up. Furthermore, the error was eventually – if belatedly – corrected. The later and final analyses and reports analyzed the potential and actual effects of the chemical actually used at Waco, CS gas, including the question of whether it might have started the fires. But it is clear that the CS gas was not responsible for starting any fire (although there’s some evidence to suggest it may have marginally prolonged the fire). Here are excerpts from the official Congressional testimony. Note that, contrary to Stephe96’s allegations, it does not come from Gray… > [@](#): > > A. SUMMARY OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE FIRE > > During the hearings, James Quintiere, professor of Fire Protection Engineering at the University of Maryland and one of two fire experts retained by the Justice Department to join the fire review team assembled by the Texas Rangers, used the FLIR video tape to demonstrate the development of the fire on April 19. Dr. Quintiere’s responsibilities as a part of the Review Team were to analyze the development of the fire and draw interpretations and conclusions from that analysis. In addition to reviewing the FLIR video, the fire investigation team reviewed television coverage of the fire by the Canadian Broadcasting Corp., which was also time dated, and television coverage of the fire by a local Waco television station. The team also reviewed aerial photographs and other materials. > > … > > One of the theories forwarded to the subcommittees concerning the origin of the fire is that methylene chloride, a chemical used as a dispersant to carry the CS riot control agent injected into the Branch Davidian residence, may have ignited and started the fire. During the hearings, Dr. Quintiere testified that it was his opinion that the methylene chloride in the CS agent neither caused nor contributed to the spread of the fire. > > According to Dr. Quintiere, methylene chloride, when a vapor in air, is flammable at ambient air levels of 12 percent or greater. This conclusion is supported by information provided by the manufacturers of methylene chloride. The subcommittees review of the evidence presented indicates that the levels of methylene chloride present in the residence on April 19 was far below this concentration [due in large part because the government vehicles beneficially made several large openings in the building!] > > Additionally, a spark, flame, or other source of heat is necessary for methylene chloride to ignite and a fireball-like event would have resulted. As Dr. Quintiere testified, In other words, anything above 12 percent to approximately 20 percent, it would be in the flammable range, and if we had a spark or a small match and if we had conditions like that, we would have a fire propagating through the atmosphere much like a fireball. There was no observation like that made for this fire. The only fireball which did occur took place well after the fires had engulfed the building, and was most likely due to the explosion of a canister of propane gas. Accordingly, because there was no explosion prior to the beginning of the fire, there is no evidence that methylene chloride vapor present in the air caused the outbreak of the fire. I urge those interested in these matters to read the [final Special Counsel report on Waco](http://www.waco93.com/Danforth-finalreport.pdf), dated November 8, 2000. The conclusions are sound, well-evidenced, and compelling: the Davidians deliberately started the fire. Here are some excerpts from that report: > [@](#): > > _ **1. Did agents of the United States start or contribute to the spread of the fire that caused the death of Branch Davidians on April 19, 1993?** _ > > Government agents did not start or materially contribute to the spread of the fire. During the morning of April 19, 1993, several Davidians spread accelerants throughout the main structure of the complex, and started fires in several locations. The evidence indicates that many of the Davidians did not want to escape the fire. Indeed, while government agents risked their lives to save Davidians from the fire, one Davidian tried to re-enter the burning complex to die. When an FBI agent questioned this Davidian regarding the location of the children, the Davidian refused to answer. A Davidian who exited the complex during the fire stated that he witnessed others make no effort to leave the complex. Another Davidian expressed remorse that she had not perished in the fire with the rest of the group. > > The following evidence demonstrates that the Davidians started the fire: > > \*(a) Title III Intercepts… > > (b) Admissions of Branch Davidians… > > (c) Statements of Government Witnesses… > > (d) Expert Fire Analysis… > > (e) Medical Analysis… > > (f) Physical Evidence… > > (g) Beliefs of the Davidians… For those who believe the government deliberately lied and covered-up, see the report’s lengthy and detailed investigation and analysis of the question: _“Did any employee of the United States make or allow others to make false or misleading statements, or withhold evidence or information from any individual or entity entitled to receive it, or destroy, alter, or suppress evidence or information relative to the events occurring at the Branch Davidian complex on April 19, 1993?”_ The evidence of serious government errors is inarguable, but there’s little reason to believe that the government lied and covered-up. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/26 "2004-01-27T17:15:33Z")
**ambushed** , let me just say that I’m in awe of your well-written, well-supported refutation of **Stephe96** ’s claims. Truly, this is what the Straight Dope is all about. /tearing up If you haven’t changed _his_ mind (conspiracy theorists are rarely convinced), know that at least you’ve changed _mine_. I’d heard a lot about this before, but I’d never been presented with the facts. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/27 "2004-01-27T18:56:32Z")
He speaks with straight dope tongue. An exceptional post. ---
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/28 "2004-01-27T22:19:13Z")
Was an arrest warrant served? I could only find a search warrant: [http://www.skepticfiles.org/waco/warrant.htm](http://www.skepticfiles.org/waco/warrant.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Agent\_Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Cooper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079/29 "2004-01-28T00:28:09Z")
I will not attempt to argue any of the facts of what happened that day … but I have a different problem with the whole affair. From my limited reading on it (mainly an article in a book called “Everything You Know Is Wrong”) the whole standoff was arranged by the ATF. There was a congressional appropriations hearing coming up the week after they started the fight (they thought it would be over in time, but the ordeal ran through the hearing date I think). Basically they wanted to create a show so that they could go to congress and show what great work they were doing, now can we please have more money? Weeks before, agents had met with Koresh, handled the weapons he was going to be arrrested for, and let him go… They were making plans for a big raid, not trying to arrest the guy. Also, the county sheriff has said that he was always on friendly terms with the Davidians. He said that if he ever needed anything of them, he would just call David and ask him to come to the sheriff’s office and he would come. (Add to it the lost door, conflicting reports, recordings of agents saying some really inappropriate things over their radios…) Forgive my lack of hard evidence, but my gut tells me it was unneccesarily set up by the ATF for attention. If they had done their job in a more prudent way, the whole fiasco never would have occured, while Koresh and his guns could have been taken into custody. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waco-questions/226079.md?page=1)