# Wagon Train to the Stars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906 "2018-02-16T02:15:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/1 "2018-02-16T02:15:44Z")
That is how Gene Roddenberry described Star Trek. I watched Wagon Train with my Grandmother a lot when I was a kid. I’ve been watching it on Me TV. I don’t recognize a damn thing save for the Wagon Master and Charlie. But. Captain Seth Adams. Science Officer Flint McCullough. Doctor Charlie Wooster. Maybe I need more sleep. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/2 "2018-02-16T15:24:25Z")
Don’t they travel from place to place each week, encountering exotic new people, solving problems, and having fantastic adventures while remaining in their own tightly-knit little group? “Hell, it’s just another horse opera, except they ride a spaceship instead of a nag.” That was Roddeneberry’s attempt to put the concept into a form to which TV executives (and audiences) could relate. Westerns were very popular at the time; inevitably, the show was also compared to \*\*\*Gunsmoke \*\*\*and _ **Have Gun, Will Travel** _ in terms of having a close family of characters and a familiar home base from which to operate. (Interestingly, it was also compared to _ **Dr Kildare** _ for the same reasons, hospital shows being popular at the time too.) One problem with the concept was pointed out by Herb Solow in the book he coauthored with Bob Justman: Westerns depicted a period in American history with which audiences were somewhat familiar; setting the show in outer space in the distant future might make it hard for them to relate to. Solow suggested _ **Gulliver’s Travels** _ would be a better model, since Swift was supposedly recounting events that had already happened, thereby making them easier to believe. This is why almost every episode opened with Kirk reading his log entry for that week. (If we’re to believe Solow, the name of the show was at one point _ **Gulliver’s Travels** _, and Kirk was Captain Gulliver.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/3 "2018-02-16T17:45:29Z")
I guess when Jon McIntire took over as the wagon master, it became, “Wagon Train, the Next Generation”. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/4 "2018-02-16T18:01:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I guess when Jon McIntire took over as the wagon master, it became, “Wagon Train, the Next Generation”. Just so long as they kept on rollin’, rollin’, rollin’. 🆒 (Whoops! Wrong Western! \*\* Duh!\*\* :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/5 "2018-02-16T18:37:45Z")
Wagon Train’s a really cool show, but did you notice they never get anywhere? They just keep wagon training. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/6 "2018-02-16T18:45:46Z")
It was a five year mission. The show got cancelled first. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/7 "2018-02-16T19:00:38Z")
Maybe it was too obscure for studio execs, but the real model for Kirk is Hornblower. The 1951 movie with Gregory Peck is probably the finest Star Trek movie ever made. The second is of course Forbidden Planet, but that’s already set in space. Maybe Roddenberry should have called it Forbidden Planet: the series. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/8 "2018-02-16T19:21:03Z")
I think it stems from 1) Westerns were still popular on tv in the mid 1960s when Roddenberry made his pitch. 2) they were in different locations with different guest stars each week. 3) pitching it as Forbidden Planet the series would have been more accurate but science fiction series didn’t do well in the era of three channels. In the mid 1980s “Miami Vice” was pitched as MTV cops. Should I explain that MTV used to play music videos? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/9 "2018-02-16T19:47:54Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > In the mid 1980s “Miami Vice” was pitched as MTV cops. Should I explain that MTV used to play music videos? … And _ **Hee Haw** _ was pitched as “a hillbilly _ **Laugh-In** _.” Ew! ☹ (This was done over the phone and sold immediately, which tells us a lot about CBS executives in 1969. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/10 "2018-02-16T19:58:53Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Maybe it was too obscure for studio execs, but the real model for Kirk is Hornblower. The 1951 movie with Gregory Peck is probably the finest Star Trek movie ever made. > > The second is of course Forbidden Planet, but that’s already set in space. Maybe Roddenberry should have called it Forbidden Planet: the series. I have to nominate _Galaxy Quest_ as the finest Star Trek movie ever made. Of course, it came out after Star Trek, so it would have been impossible for Roddenberry to have pitched it as such. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/11 "2018-02-16T20:11:39Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I have to nominate _Galaxy Quest_ as the finest Star Trek movie ever made. Of course, it came out after Star Trek, so it would have been impossible for Roddenberry to have pitched it as such. ”Did you guys ever WATCH the show?” — Guy Brilliant. Just brilliant. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/12 "2018-02-16T20:13:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ”Did you guys ever WATCH the show?” — Guy > > Brilliant. Just brilliant. > > Stranger Star Trek or galaxy Quest? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/13 "2018-02-16T20:14:49Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Wagon Train’s a really cool show, but did you notice they never get anywhere? They just keep wagon training. Surely they did. Adams, Charlie and Bill are shanghaied from California after one trip. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/14 "2018-02-16T20:16:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Star Trek or galaxy Quest? I see you managed to get your shirt ripped again. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/15 "2018-02-16T20:51:30Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I see you managed to get your shirt ripped again. :mad: ”They’re not ALL ‘historical documents.’ Surely, you don’t think Gilligan’s Island is a…” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/16 "2018-02-16T20:58:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ”They’re not ALL ‘historical documents.’ Surely, you don’t think Gilligan’s Island is a…” > > Stranger Those poor people! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/17 "2018-02-16T21:12:23Z")
I\* knew\* it was real! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/18 "2018-02-16T21:22:33Z")
_Lost in Space_ sort of had a similar episode format, but _Space: 1999_ is a much closer _Wagon Train_ analog. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/19 "2018-02-16T21:39:20Z")
Did they have redshirts on ‘Wagon Train’? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906/20 "2018-02-16T22:28:05Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Did they have redshirts on ‘Wagon Train’? I was about to make an incredibly non-PC joke here, Kemo Sabe, but decided against it. 🆒 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wagon-train-to-the-stars/808906.md?page=2)