# Waht kind of President would Howard Dean make?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 29, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257 "2003-10-29T16:33:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/1 "2003-10-29T16:33:16Z")
This question could be in IHMO or in GQ, but I have chosen to put it here because of the somewhat greater focus in this forum on serious political discussions. Mods move if you must.
I was reading this MSNBC article on Howard Dean,
[The persistence of Howard Dean -Certitude, combativeness have brought Democratic front-runner success so far](http://www.msnbc.com/news/986258.asp?0cv=CB20)
and the thought occured to me “What would happen if this guy did get elected President?”. I know little to nothing about Dean as a person and I am curious what other Dopers would think of him as a potential President.
Say between now and the next election, the Bush administration does something really, really stupid that pisses of a lot of voters, and Howard Dean continues to defy expectations and keeps gaining momentum. If by some chance Dean wins the Presidency, what kind of President do you think he will be?
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### Author:  [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/2 "2003-10-29T17:27:28Z")
He does share with Bush, I think, a sense of righteousness, a highly moral attitude with the impatience of one who simply can’t understand why people can see the obvious solutions he’s offering to Problem X, and some of that black-and-white morality. I think if he’s not more tactful he could alienate almost as many allies as Bush has, no matter how much lip service he plays to the UN and all; I get the sense that he won’t suffer fools abroad either.
However, he’s ten times smarter and comes from a similiar privileged background but a far less macho and more refined version of it. I don’t particularly ‘like’ him but then again when I step in the booth I’m not voting from Prom King. Trouble is, it’s so hard to tell what problems he’ll face in 2005, and what the world will look like then. I dunno, he’s not my choice of the Dems we have now, but if it’s him vs. Bush I’ll pull the lever and take a chance on him.
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### Author:  [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/3 "2003-10-29T17:30:09Z")
Second line: why people CAN’T see the obvious solutions…
:slap:
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### Author:  [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/4 "2003-10-29T17:51:20Z")
Well,
people from Vermont, what kind of governor was he?
(not that he wouldn’t change completely if he became president. But it would be indicative.)
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### Author:  [@Sanscour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanscour)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/5 "2003-10-30T02:10:36Z")
I didn’t think he was that bad. Vermont hasn’t blown up, Burlington was considered one of the best places to live in the country a few years ago on an A&E tv show. Though his vehement anti-war stance shocks me even a little…I guess I’m not use to seeing him so…vocal.
Sanscour
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/6 "2003-10-30T02:52:34Z")
Dean and Wesley Clark share one characteristic, one you’ll read about in every column or artcile dealing with them: both men “suffer fools badly.”
In itself, that’s not a sin or even a negative. What IS a negative is that Dean seems to consider MOST people fools.
He’s VERY good at energizing people who share his convictions, and that’s essential for winning the Democratic nomination. But during the campaign and (should he win) in the White House, I suspect his arrogance will quickly alienate most Americans who don’t share his views.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/7 "2003-10-30T03:09:19Z")
Unfortunately, Dean is a bit of a cipher. It’s very hard to judge someone based on their stated positions in a primary, because in the primaries the candidate is playing to one side of the house. Once he wins the nomination, he has to attract voters from all sides, and the positions will change.
My prediction is that no matter who wins the White House, they will continue to prosecute the war on terror pretty much the way Bush is doing. The presidency has a way of forcing people to face up to certain realities. Had Al Gore been president, I believe he would have done just about the same things Bush did.
It’s easy to say now that you need the U.N. and should have gotten them, but no one seems to want to answer the question, “But what if you don’t have a choice?” What if the U.N. winds up simply opposing what all your experts and generals say is the right course of action for your country? Do you give France and Russia a veto over your security?
The option was never, “Go into Iraq with the U.N., or go alone”, like Dean and Clark are saying. The option was, “Go into Iraq with whoever you can get, but without the U.N., or don’t go at all.” Dean acts like the U.N. just needed to be _finessed_, and all the ducks would have fallen into place and the free world would have marched lock-step against terrorism. That was _never_ a realistic proposition. In the real world, other countries have interests that are not the same as yours.
If Clark or Dean is elected, they’ll make lots of noise about being ‘new’ presidents, with a fresh vision for the war on terror. They’ll make all kinds of attempts to placate other countries, to become more internationalist, etc. But once they try to do something actually hard, and get hard opposition, they’ll be forced to make the same kinds of choices Bush had to face. And they’ll probably make the same decisions.
Dean might actually turn out to be pretty good. Sometimes I think the only way you can get fiscal responsibility in Washington is to elect a Democratic president, with a Republican Congress. As Bush is showing, when the Republicans control the whole shooting match, they don’t seem to have any self control. Probably the same for the Democrats.
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### Author:  [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/8 "2003-10-30T03:43:13Z")
Dean was interviewed on, I think, _Sixty Minutes_ last week, and my impression was positive. It’s really too early to say any more than that. I remember when Jimmy Carter looked pretty good (before he was elected). I still like Carter the man, but I’m just as glad that he’s not still president. I’d like to see a lot more of Dean before I decide whether to support him. My history isn’t too promising with respect to first impressions.
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/9 "2003-10-30T03:45:25Z")
Mediocre.
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### Author:  [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/10 "2003-10-30T03:48:46Z")
I wish some here would face reality. Anyone care to take a guess how many times the equation of the invasion of Iraq with the fight against terrorism has been disputed here in this forum? Many of us, particularly non-Republicans, don’t think they are the same thing. Many of us, perhaps including Al Gore, think that not going at all would have been better for our security. The next Democratic president and every president after that will continue to fight against terror. That doesn’t mean they will produce ad hoc excuses to go around conquering other countries.
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### Author:  [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/11 "2003-10-30T05:31:28Z")
“What if the U.N. winds up simply opposing what all your experts and generals say is the right course of action for your country?”
If you are talking about the Iraq war it is quite well known that the experts were at best reluctant supporters. Many professional soldiers thought it was unnecessary. Many professional spooks thought the administration was exaggerating the threat from Saddam. And of course the professional diplomats at State were hardly screaming for war. The major push for the war came not from the experts but from the neo-con ideologues at the Pentagon.
```
I would expect a President Dean to be not very different from Clinton. Pragmatic on economic issues but not opposed to smallish initiatives to solve social problems. Fiscally prudent when it comes to balancing budgets or at least moving in that direction and willing to raise taxes for that purpose. Internationalist but willing to use force if necessary. The big difference could be on free-trade where Clinton took some major risks. Dean has been making protectionist noises but my guess is that he won't be a major protectionist in office.
```
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/12 "2003-10-30T05:33:30Z")
Why not led Dean tell his own story? His campaign website, [http://www.deanforamerica.com/#](http://www.deanforamerica.com/#), states his polices on the issues. Draw your own conclusions.
**1. Agriculture:**
> [@](#):
>
> We can start by ensuring that rural entrepreneurs have access to equity capital. Rural entrepreneurs have good ideas, but too often they don’t have access to the capital they need to turn their ideas into job-creating businesses.
>
> We must also address the cycle of out-migration that has decimated many of our rural communities, which we can do through government matched savings accounts and tax credits to help create businesses with fewer than five employees.
>
> Universal health care will help rural America a great deal as well; small businesses will be able to afford insurance for their employees, and no family will worry about finding money to go to a doctor.
>
> We must also address the digital divide in rural America by making a dramatic investment in broadband technology that will reach every American.
>
> Additionally, we need a real conservation program in America. We must implement and restore funding for Senator Harkin’s Conservation Security Program, but we must also address the fact that many large, corporate Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations are able to receive millions in government aid while skirting environmental rules through a loophole passed by Republicans in 2002. As president, I will close this loophole immediately and implement meaningful payment limitations for the EQIP program.
>
> We must also address the problems of concentration and integration; megafarms are getting larger, and it’s becoming harder for small farmers to make a profit. Studies have also shown that as farm size and absentee ownership increase in a community, so do poverty and unemployment. One step we can take to curtail concentration will be to institute a national packer ban, ensuring meatpackers cannot own livestock prior to slaughter. As president, I will also use authority under the Packers and Stockyards Act to take aggressive action to stop price discrimination by packers. I will vigorously enforce anti-trust laws to stop anti-corporate mergers like Smithfield’s recent acquisition of Farmland and I will restrict the amount of federal support payments huge megafarms can receive.
**2. Civil Rights & Justice:**
> [@](#):
>
> Fundamental to the restoration of the American community is the reaffirmation of the principles of Civil Rights and Justice. As President, I will work tirelessly to promote these principles:
>
> I will support affirmative action, from which we have all benefited, because it has strengthened our institutions and provided opportunity.
> I will unflinchingly defend a woman’s right to choose against those who would take away this right.
> I will nominate federal judges with outstanding legal credentials, records of professional excellence, and demonstrated commitment to the constitutional principles of equality, liberty, and privacy.
> I will work to expand equal rights to same-sex couples and ban workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation, strengthen federal protections against anti-gay violence, give federal employees the right to name same-sex partners as beneficiaries, remove bias from our immigration laws, and end the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.
> I will work to ensure that racial profiling ends and I will direct my Attorney General to use regulatory authority under existing anti-discrimination laws the 1964 Civil Rights Act to define racial profiling as discrimination, and to withhold federal funds from state and local law enforcement that violate those regulations.
> I will appoint an Attorney General who sees our constitution not as a document to be manipulated, ignored, and violated, but who recognizes and respects it as the fabric that binds the American community together.
> I will oppose expansion of the Patriot Act, efforts to remove sunset clauses included in the act, and I will seek to repeal the portions of the Patriot Act that are unconstitutional.
> I will put the weight of my office behind the Innocence Protection Act, proposed by Senator Patrick Leahy, which would expand access to DNA testing and strengthen the quality of lawyers for defendants facing the death penalty.
> I will protect the civil rights of immigrants detained by the Department of Homeland Security.
> I will work for federal legislation to restore the right to vote in any federal election for ex-felons who have paid their debt to society.
**3. Economy:**
> [@](#):
>
> My economic policies for America are based on four fundamentals:
>
> Repeal the Bush tax cuts, and use those funds to pay for universal health care, homeland security, and investments in job creation that benefit all Americans.
> Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
> Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
> Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
**4. Education:**
> [@](#):
>
> As President, I will also work to strengthen our schools with improved student health centers, a focus on parental involvement, recruiting and retaining outstanding teachers and administrators, and resources to fund key mandates. We must fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, increase funding for elementary and secondary education improvement, and oppose efforts to gut vocational education programs.
>
> I am committed to keeping the doors of higher education open to all who wish to pass through them. Today, as tuition at public colleges and universities rises rapidly due to state budget cuts and the President’s reckless fiscal policy, the federal government needs to renew its commitment to broader access to higher education. The Dean College Commitment helps families and students prepare for post secondary education. I know the importance of national service and I will provide significant incentives for young people to get involved.
**5. Environment:**
> [@](#):
>
> As President, I will bring my commitment to our environment to the White House, guided by six principles:
>
> First, environmental issues cannot be isolated from other issues. President Bush and his henchmen try to sweep the environment under the rug; I will bring it back into the light. Environmental policy cannot be separated from other issues such as energy, trade, or economic policy. This is one reason that I will ask Congress to elevate the Environmental Protection Agency to cabinet status immediately, and not drag the process out with contentious debates about restructuring. We should take this step not only to reaffirm our commitment to the environment to ourselves, but to demonstrate it to the world.
>
> Second, a healthy environment and a healthy economy go hand in hand. The right wing radicals want us to believe that we must choose between a healthy environment or a healthy economy. I believe the opposite is true. We need to protect our environment to keep our economy healthy. Ask fishermen whether they need a healthy ocean to survive. Ask loggers whether they need healthy, vibrant forests. From my experience as a governor, I know it can be difficult to bring business interests and environmentalists together. But I also know that the greatest gains are made when we succeed in doing just that.
>
> Third, America should lead the way toward international environmental cooperation. In an act of diplomatic and environmental petulance, President Bush gave the back of his hand to the Kyoto Protocol. In doing so, he squandered much of America’s moral authority. On issues such as global warming, population growth, and overfishing, we have missed opportunities to demonstrate America’s ability to lead. Pollution doesn’t stop at the borders and neither should environmental policy.
>
> Fourth, the environment is a health issue. Too many cities have smog so thick that some days children have to go indoors for a breath of fresh air. To help clear the air, as President, I would direct that adoption of health-based standards for air toxins be accelerated. Further, I would immediately crack down on those companies that violate New Source Review requirements rather than broaden the loophole that allows them to spew pollution as President Bush has done as a favor to his big campaign contributors in the energy industry. And I will ask Congress to close the loophole entirely. As a doctor, I believe clean air, clean land, and clean water are the right of all Americans. It could be considered part of my health care plan.
>
> Fifth, America is capable of making incredible gains in efficiency and renewable energy technologies. That’s why I will set ambitious goals for renewable energy, energy efficiency, and fuel economy standards. I call on American automakers to embrace change, to see the new opportunities ahead, rather than waste time and energy resisting progress. The Japanese, instead of opposing California’s strict emissions requirements, rolled out hybrid gasoline-electric automobiles that are on the road today. In fact, Toyota is already rolling out the second generation of its Prius model. I believe that American automakers should not only catch up, they should become efficiency leaders and market leaders. Under a Dean Administration, they will get the support they would need to make this a reality.
>
> Sixth, environmental leadership must be based on foresight. America’s environmental policies have too often been limited by the politics of a four-year presidential term, resulting in ineffective, short term policies that amount to a band-aid on a broken bone. My administration will craft comprehensive environmental policies that keep the long-term in mind; policies that proactively tackle the problems we know are looming decades, even centuries down the road. Addressing environmental threats such as global warming and over-fishing today will pay dividends to future generations of Americans.
**6. Health:**
> [@](#):
>
> I believe, however, that given a choice between having health insurance or keeping all of the Bush’s tax cuts in place, most Americans will choose health insurance. My plan will cost $88.3 billion – less than half of the president’s tax cut – with money left over to pay down the deficits run up by this administration.
> My plan consists of four major components.
> First, and most important, in order to extend health coverage to every uninsured child and young adult up to age 25, we’ll redefine and expand two essential federal and state programs – Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. Right now, they only offer coverage to children from lower-income families. Under my plan, we cover all kids and young adults up to age 25 – middle income as well as lower income. This aspect of my plan will give 11.5 million more kids and young adults access to the healthcare they need.
> Second, we’ll give a leg up to working families struggling to afford health insurance. Adults earning up to 185% of the poverty level – $16,613 – will be eligible for coverage through the already existing Children Health Insurance Program. By doing this, an additional 11.8 million people will have access to the care they need.
> Many working families have incomes that put them beyond the help offered by government programs. But this doesn’t mean they have viable options for healthcare. We’ll establish an affordable health insurance plan people can buy into, providing coverage nearly identical to what members of Congress and federal employees receive.
> To cushion the costs, we’ll also offer a significant tax credit to those with high premium costs. By offering this help, another 5.5 million adults will have access to care.
> Third, we need to recognize that one key to a healthy America is making healthcare affordable to small businesses.We shouldn’t turn our back on the employer-based system we have now, but neither should we simply throw money at it. We need to modernize the system so employers will have an option beyond passing rising costs on to workers or bailing out of the system entirely. Fortunately, we have a model of efficient, affordable and user-friendly healthcare coverage: the federal employee health system.
> With the plan I’ve put forth to the American people, we’ll organize a system nearly identical to the one federal workers and members of Congress enjoy. And we’ll enable all employers with less than 50 workers to join it at rates lower than are currently available to these companies – provided they insure their work force. I’ll also offer employers a deal: The federal government will pick up 70% of COBRA premiums for employees transitioning out of their jobs, but we’ll expect employers to pay the cost of extending coverage for an additional two months. These two months are often the difference between workers finding the health coverage they need, or joining the ranks of the uninsured.
> Finally, to ensure that the maximum number of American men, women and children have access to healthcare, we must address corporate responsibility. There are many corporations that could provide healthcare to their employees but choose not to. The final element of this plan is a clear, strong message to corporate America that providing health coverage is fundamental to being a good corporate citizen. I look at business tax deductions as part of a compact between American taxpayers and corporate America. We give businesses certain benefits, and expect them to live up to certain responsibilities.
**7. Labor:**
> [@](#):
>
> As President, I would work to undo the harsh anti-labor policies of the current Administration. For example, we need a tough ergonomics standard, not just another scientific study. Additionally, I would reverse the Bush Administration’s soon-to-be-finalized regulations eroding the right to overtime pay under the Fair Labor Standards Act.
>
> I support a number of specific proposals to protect the right of workers to form a union:
>
> Card Check. Federal labor law should be amended to declare that a union is established whenever a majority of workers have signed cards stated that they wish to unionize. This would avoid protracted and divisive campaigns in which employers use intimidation and coercion to block unionization. Republicans in Congress are proposing to ban even discretionary card-check procedures. As President, I would veto such mean-spirited anti-worker legislation.
> Ban on captive audience / mandatory anti-union meetings. Under current law, employers may schedule meetings that employees MUST attend at which employers advocate against formation of a union. Federal law should ban such practices.
> Ban on one-on-one anti-union meetings. Current law permits employers to pull individual workers off the job to attend one-on-one anti-union propaganda sessions. Such inherently coercive one-on-one meetings should be banned as an unfair labor practice.
> Streamlined NLRB procedures. The process by which the National Labor Relations Board certifies unions is subject to endless appeals and delays. Employers should have only one opportunity to challenge the validity of a new union, and the process must be streamlined so that workers can form a union in a timely way.
> New civil penalties for failure to negotiate in good faith. Right now there are no serious consequences if an employer ignores a newly formed union. There should be meaningful financial penalties available to federal regulators when an employer fails to negotiate in good faith with a union.
> In addition, federal law should be amended to expand the number of workers who can unionize. Tens of millions of workers are unjustifiably denied the right to unionize. The ban on unions for supervisors, agricultural workers, and independent contractors is too broad and should be narrowed. The rights of state employees to unionize should be strengthened.
>
> As President, I will make job creation a top priority. Good jobs are the result of sound fiscal policies, progressive tax practices, and practical, necessary investments in our communities. To this end, I will propose the repeal of every last dime of the Bush tax cuts. I will work to eliminate tax policies that provide incentives for American firms to move manufacturing jobs offshore. And I will propose new ways to help small businesses access the capital they need for growth, job retention, and plant modernization so that they can compete successfully in the global economy. I will also support increased funding for workforce training.
>
> Creating and keeping good jobs for Americans also requires the rigorous enforcement of fair trade policies. I would not negotiate trade agreements that do not include meaningful labor, environmental, and human rights protections. I would not pursue trade policies that undermine important U.S. laws and regulations, especially those that protect American workers. I will vigorously enforce anti-dumping laws.
**8. Security/Foreign Policy:**
> [@](#):
>
> I opposed President Bush’s war in Iraq from the beginning. While Saddam Hussein’s regime was clearly evil and needed to be disarmed, it did not present an immediate threat to U.S. security that would justify going to war, particularly going to war alone. From the beginning, I felt that winning the war would not be the hard part winning the peace would be. This Administration failed to plan for the postwar period as it did for the battle, and today we are paying the price.
>
> My opposition to the war, however, is part of a comprehensive view of America’s role in the world that I presented to the Council on Foreign Relations on June 25th (click here for full text). In that speech, I laid out four goals for American leadership in the world:
>
> First, defeat the threat posed by terrorists, tyrants, and technologies of mass destruction.
> Second, strengthen our alliances and ensure Russia and China are fully integrated into a stable international order.
> Third, enlarge the circle of beneficiaries of the growing world economy.
> And fourth, ensure that life on our fragile planet is sustainable.
> Fifty-five years ago, President Harry Truman delivered what was known as the Four Point speech. In it, he challenged Democrats and Republicans alike to come together to build strong and effective international organizations, to support arrangements that would spur global economic recovery, to join with free people everywhere in the defense of human liberty, and to draw upon the genius of our people to help societies who needed help in the battle against hunger and illness, ignorance, and despair.
>
> Harry Truman believed that a world in which even the poorest and most desperate had grounds for hope would be a world in which our own children could grow up in security and peace not because evil would then be absent from the globe, but because the forces of right would be united and strong.
>
> Harry Truman had faith as I have faith, and as I believe the American people have faith, that if we are wise enough and determined enough in our opposition to hate and our promotion of tolerance, in our opposition to aggression and our fidelity to law, we will have allies not only among governments but among people everywhere.
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### Author:  [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/13 "2003-10-30T06:33:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \*
> \*\*My prediction is that no matter who wins the White House, they will continue to prosecute the war on terror pretty much the way Bush is doing. The presidency has a way of forcing people to face up to certain realities. Had Al Gore been president, I believe he would have done just about the same things Bush did. \*\*
Except he would’ve done it 18 months earlier when Clinton had an anti-terrorism plan worked out. Oh, and we probably wouldn’t be in Iraq.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/14 "2003-10-30T06:46:15Z")
Holy socialism, Batman.
Let’s see… Dean will raise taxes, strengthen unions and make it easy for them to form, have nationwide closed shop regulations that force employers to deal in ‘good faith’ with unions or face financial penalty, bring in universal health care for pretty much everyone under 25 and many others, provide federal funds to farmers, provide matching grants for savings and investment for small farmers, create new national service programs to allow every young person t o go to college on the government’s nickel.
Oh, and he’ll balance the budget, too.
This does not compute.
Oh, and he’s going to heavily regulate business. A whole new host of farm regulations, environmental regulations, worker regulations, export regulations, and ‘fair trade’ instead of ‘free trade’.
Until I read this, I thought Dean was sort of okay. Fiscal conservative, slightly loopy on the war on terror, but would probably see the light if he became president.
But if he seriously managed to implement even half of what he says he would do, it would be an economic disaster.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/15 "2003-10-30T07:04:02Z")
Posted by **Sam Stone:**
> [@](#):
>
> Holy socialism, Batman.
>
> Let’s see… Dean will raise taxes, strengthen unions and make it easy for them to form, have nationwide closed shop regulations that force employers to deal in ‘good faith’ with unions or face financial penalty, bring in universal health care for pretty much everyone under 25 and many others, provide federal funds to farmers, provide matching grants for savings and investment for small farmers, create new national service programs to allow every young person t o go to college on the government’s nickel.
>
> Oh, and he’ll balance the budget, too.
>
> This does not compute.
It might or might not compute, **Sam,** but it isn’t socialism. Not even Kucinich is really a socialist. Not even by European social-democratic standards. Try to keep these things in their proper perspective.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/16 "2003-10-30T07:29:04Z")
He may not be at the station, but he’s definitely driving the train in that direction… (-:
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### Author:  [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/17 "2003-10-30T17:23:25Z")
Found something more in the NY Observer of a few weeks ago; as a media-oriented newspaper they’re following Dean and his new-wave campaign with great interest. It’s basically about ,[Darrell Hammond the comedian](http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=7952), who’s chomping at the bit to impersonate Dean this season on SNL, and like most good comics is very perceptive about personalities.
> [@](#):
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> He said inhabiting Dr. Dean—a character that producer Lorne Michaels has not yet assigned—wouldn’t be a far cry from doing President George W. Bush. Like Mr. Bush, he said, “sometimes he switches sentences in midstream. He sputters and sometimes he seems too angry—he seems like a person. That’s something that’s been successful.”
The author of the piece goes on to say:
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> When Mr. Gephardt tried his angry Gephardt routine, tying Dr. Dean to Newt Gingrich, Dr. Dean transformed: His bottom row of teeth started to extrude, he looked down at his papers, fuming, fur tufts practically sprouting on his hands. When he gave his retort—“Nobody up here should be com-com-compared to Newt Gingrich!”—he stumbled over the sentence. But it still stuck out as one of the freshest moments in the debate. This guy is the freshest madman since Richard Widmark.
Hmmmm. I guess it depends on what America’s looking for when it finally slogs to the polls. But pretty consistently they don’t seem to like 'know it all’s". Which is a shame, since I usually admire such people, but my candidates usually don’t win.
Whether my candidate will be Dean or not will be interesting to see. And what kind of President he’ll make–well, maybe another Carter? A very testy, less grinny Carter?
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### Author:  [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/18 "2003-10-30T17:40:46Z")
He will be effective only if he can gain the cooperation of Congress, and in recent history, presidents elected as “outsiders” have had very little success in this area, even within their own party.
And now, we have even the Democrats inside the beltway wishing for “anyone but Dean.” I think if he gets elected, he’ll be as ineffective in domestic issues as Carter was.
In other words, he’s not one of the “good ole boys,” and the “good ole boys” run Washington. Until we kick all the bums out, we aren’t gonna see things improve much.
And I’m trying not to even think about the kind of red-faced foot stamping and partisan attacks he’ll face from the rancorous right… You think Clinton had it bad? Wait until Dean… **Sam Stone** has already started with the “socialist” attacks.
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### Author:  [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/19 "2003-10-30T19:56:27Z")
Now, now, I wouldn’t call what **Sam Stone** wrote ‘red-faced foot stamping’ but then again I usually like Sam’s posts 🙂 and think he raises some good points. I agree that the attacks will be fierce, though, maybe more fierce than if we get a Kerry or Lieberman as the nominee, but I would guess the WH strategy will be of the “float serenely above the fray” type unless the polls show real danger.
But you do have a point about Good Ole Boys (and don’t forget some of the biggest–Teddy K, Charlie Rangel, Gephardt as well–are liberals, and Diane Feinstein isn’t a boy!). His experience governing a small state and his long experience in the VT legislature may not help–even Clinton, who can charm the teeth off a shark, had trouble as a novice when he walked onto Capitol Hill with his eager beaver pizza-eatin’ late-night brainstormin’ aides.
Another thing to ask about Dean is if he’ll have coat-tails (Non-USDopers go huh?) which means whether or not he’ll be so popular that people will make sure they elect Dems to Congress as well as the Presidency. If much of the same leadership we have now is in place in 2005, I really wonder at how much Dean will actually get done, no matter what his website promises.
I will, however, look forward to a Bush/Dean debate, although it seems that it’ll be the sort of thing that will require lots of beer and the removal of heavy throwable objects in the room to get through.
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### Author:  [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)
#### Post date: [October 31, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/20 "2003-10-31T01:52:22Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by astorian \*
> \*\*Dean and Wesley Clark share one characteristic, one you’ll read about in every column or artcile dealing with them: both men “suffer fools badly.”
>
> \*\*
I’ve heard this criticism before regarding Dean, but haven’t seen any examples to support it. Googling “Dean” and “suffers fools badly” and the like, sadly, was no help. What are some examples of such behavior?
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