# Waht kind of President would Howard Dean make? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257 "2003-10-29T16:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/41 "2003-11-02T22:29:25Z")
No, **Shodan.** A national single-payer health care system (Canadian-style) is **not** the same thing as nationalizing the health-care industry and creating a system in which doctors are public employees (British-style). And progressive income taxes, even highly progressive and confiscatory taxes, are **not** the same thing as simply expropriating the rich (Bolshevik-style). ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/42 "2003-11-02T22:36:21Z")
You have clearly a whole other “definition” of the words “socialist and socialism” then we do. I think you try to sell it as if “socialism” is equal to “communism”. You also seem to have no understanding of what “social democracy” means. But this is a discussion outside the OP of this thread. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/43 "2003-11-03T02:40:17Z")
Posted by **Aldebaran:** > [@](#): > > You have clearly a whole other “definition” of the words “socialist and socialism” then we do. > I think you try to sell it as if “socialism” is equal to “communism”. > You also seem to have no understanding of what “social democracy” means. > > But this is a discussion outside the OP of this thread. Maybe it is, **Aldebaran,** but I still have to ask: Are you addressing me or **Shodan?** Which one of us misunderstands these terms? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/44 "2003-11-04T08:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\*GWB has no experience “ruling” a big state, \*\* That little job he has as President…you think that’s less experience than running VERMONT?:rolleyes: Please! Look, I’m not here to defend W. But saying that being the Governor of Vermont will equate to being a good President is like saying a good paperboy should be put in charge of Hearst. Absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/45 "2003-11-04T19:18:39Z")
Yeah, the last time had a governor of a small state as president his name was Clinton. You remember how crappy things were under Clinton compared to Bush right? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/46 "2003-11-04T21:20:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*You remember how crappy things were under Clinton compared to Bush right? \*\* Do I ever! The tax hikes, the gun bans, selling secrets to China. Things were really bad. Luckily a Republican Congress was there to straighten out the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/47 "2003-11-05T04:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > **have nationwide closed shop regulations** Huh? Where does Dean’s platform say that? I’m interested because I’ve worked in a closed shop and it imperially pissed me off. (Actually, a Google search for “closed shop” reveals that I didn’t technically work in a closed shop, as they were outlawed in 1947 by the Taft-Hartley Act. What I worked in was a union shop where I had to join the union 5 seconds after signing a contract of employment. Crucial difference. :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/48 "2003-11-05T05:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*My prediction is that no matter who wins the White House, they will continue to prosecute the war on terror pretty much the way Bush is doing. The presidency has a way of forcing people to face up to certain realities. Had Al Gore been president, I believe he would have done just about the same things Bush did. > \*\* I know it’s a hijack, but I can’t let this pass. He wouldn’t have invaded Iraq and his fiscal policy would have been very different. As to the OP, a SMARTER President, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/49 "2003-11-05T05:18:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*Do I ever! The tax hikes, the gun bans, selling secrets to China. > Things were really bad. > Luckily a Republican Congress was there to straighten out the economy. \*\* yeah, I sure am glad Dubya was able to end the long national nightmare of peace and prosperity we had under Clinton! ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/50 "2003-11-05T15:07:28Z")
Yep, that was funny when the Daily Show said it two years ago and it’s still funny now :rolleyes: Anyway, a couple of interesting articles from today’s Boston Globe. Look quick, since they start chargin’ after a couple of days. [Sarah Schweitzer analysis.](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/dean/articles/2003/11/05/in_dean_battle_plan_theres_no_retreat/) > [@](#): > > The force and fury of the attack from fellow Democrats was notable, but perhaps more striking was Dean’s response. Dean, the former governor of Vermont and front-runner in the bid for Democratic nomination, fired back with determined insistence that his reference to the controversial flag was appropriate and refused to concede its problematic potential – much less apologize. It is that stubbornness that may prove most difficult for the Dean candidacy. [Scott Lehigh anaylsis.](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2003/11/05/edwards_scores_dean_rattled_in_hub_debate/) > [@](#): > > Dean’s point is easily understood: He believes that cultural issues keep a significant number of Southerners voting Republican when their economic interests lie with the Democrats. And there is no reason to think him a bigot. Still, the blunt Vermonter occasionally displays dangerous symptoms of foot-in-mouth disease – and last night he made that condition worse by refusing to regret a poor choice of words. [Last night’s debate transcript.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64721-2003Nov4.html) The issue is silly, I think, and Dean is right that the Dems have a serious problem with low-income whites (although I think it’s nationwide and has a lot to do with values, not Pubbie tricks). But his response ties into a lot of what’s been said here. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/51 "2003-11-05T16:40:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*yeah, I sure am glad Dubya was able to end the long national nightmare of peace and prosperity we had under Clinton! \*\* “Under” Clinton? Yeah. But not “Because” of Clinton. Either way, your post is full of beans. Myself and others like me are doing terrific right now. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/52 "2003-11-05T16:41:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*yeah, I sure am glad Dubya was able to end the long national nightmare of peace and prosperity we had under Clinton! \*\* “Under” Clinton? “During” Clinton, maybe, but not “Because” of Clinton. Either way, your post is full of beans. Myself and others like me are doing terrific right now. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/53 "2003-11-05T19:50:44Z")
I think the fundamental problems is that many low-income whites 1. get all their news from teevee and radio 2. embrace racism The Pubbies have the teevee news and commentary game covered almost completely (witness Craven Broadcasting System’s collapse on the Reagan biopic issue), so their message gets out whereas the Dem message is endlessly spun by their opponents. And the Pubbies have embraced racism, in a covert sort of way, though not so covert that the low-income whites don’t recognize it. I don’t see the Dems embracing racism, and the DLC is too wishy-washy to go toe-to-toe with the Pubbies for control of the media, so I don’t see much changing. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257/54 "2003-11-06T01:14:04Z")
I suppose, **EC** , that you can support the contention that a significant chunk of low income whites embrace racism? If so, please do so; if not, please retract. Being, after all, a low-income white meself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waht-kind-of-president-would-howard-dean-make/210257.md?page=2)