# Wait a Sec.... Questions RE Star Trek: TOS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 27, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182 "2009-06-27T16:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/261 "2009-07-11T01:37:22Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I must say I am amazed that this thread is as long as it is and no one has brought up the specter of the Big 3 being gay. They’re not gay. They are, however, replicants. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/262 "2009-07-11T01:45:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They’re not gay. > They are, however, replicants. How so? And where can I get a replicant of Kirk circa 1968? A girl gets lonely down here on Earth… I mentioned the gay thing because one of the sites (no, I don’t have it bookmarked so cannot share it with you, but it’s in this thread linked somewhere re the women of Star Trek) claims that Kirk was NOT a womanizer (fair enough and he certainly wasn’t by today’s standards OR the 60s, either), but she goes on to say (not in so many words) that Spock and Kirk had a Thing for one another. I got to thinking about that on the way home and had this reaction: :rolleyes: That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/263 "2009-07-11T07:32:53Z")
C’mon- I thought Kirk/Spock was the birth of slash. (Hush, you Holmes/Watson weirdos). But just because two comrades would kill and/or die for each other and never found wives, doesn’t mean the subtext became text. Then there’s the whole issue of whether Vulcans would indulge in non procreative sex when it wasn’t That Time of the Decade. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/264 "2009-07-11T11:59:19Z")
As I re-watch all the episodes, one thing that I can’t figure out is where Kirk’s black undershirt goes when he gets his uniform ripped. Are those the days he decides to go commando? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/265 "2009-07-11T14:20:38Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > As I re-watch all the episodes, one thing that I can’t figure out is where Kirk’s black undershirt goes when he gets his uniform ripped. Are those the days he decides to go commando? Ok, I am so going there–does he have a nice package or what? I could watch that man climb rocks all day–the dust from them um, accentuates the erm, bumps in his black trousers… But he DOES show a panty line in I, Mudd. It’s hilarious. I can see where Kirk/Spock could be the birth of slash–but Holmes/Watson, Poirot/Hastings, hell Little Women do predate them. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/266 "2009-07-11T15:00:29Z")
Not sure about that, but every time he gets his shirt ripped we get bare Kirk shaved boob. Where is his black undershirt? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/267 "2009-07-11T15:53:56Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > Not sure about that, but every time he gets his shirt ripped we get bare Kirk shaved boob. Where is his black undershirt? You must not be paying close attention… Just watched Return to Tomorrow. A good episode, but (again) a few questions/comments: If Anne is an astro-biologist, why is she wearing red? She should be in blue. If the Sargon people are pure energy and soooo very advanced, etc, how come they kiss etc like we do? How was/is their evolution different than ours? Spock makes an excellent evil bad guy–I love how he shocks the hell out of Nurse Chapel by sitting up, giving her a compliment and smiling. I also love her little crush on him. How could Kirk not know Anne as an officer? How many female astro-biologists are on board the Enterprise? I like the way they swap out lower echelon personnel–that black nurse(?) helping keep Kirk’s body alive, for example. It does convey the idea that there are a few hundred crew on board (I also love how the number varies from show to show). I will say that IMO Shatner et al are NOT given enough credit for their acting chops. It must have been supremely difficult to convey their bodies being used by an alien, but they all did it very well. Last thing: I’m thinking that Anne the Astro-biologist wanted to boff Kirk all along. But the last scene just exemplifies “awkward!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/268 "2009-07-11T16:26:31Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > If the Sargon people are pure energy and soooo very advanced, etc, how come they kiss etc like we do? How was/is their evolution different than ours? I was under the impression that Sargon’s people had been humanoid (albeit very advanced) but the few remaining members of the species had converted themselves to energy in order to survive the fallout of some massively destructive war. I seem to recall that Anne (once possessed) saw Kirk (also possessed) and commented that this new body was much like Sargon’s old one. Studmuffinly, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/269 "2009-07-11T18:19:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I was under the impression that Sargon’s people had been humanoid (albeit very advanced) but the few remaining members of the species had converted themselves to energy in order to survive the fallout of some massively destructive war. I seem to recall that Anne (once possessed) saw Kirk (also possessed) and commented that this new body was much like Sargon’s old one. > Studmuffinly, I assume. Well, that’s the female alien talking–I think that ANNE herself was interested in Kirk–if only as a scientist (not like Rand who had a crush). Maybe I should phrase it differently: I’m sure Anne didn’t mind being used by “Sargon” in such a way. And why didn’t they just procreate or have sperm banks etc? A fascinating question: Why not have Sargon et al use Kirk et al as surrogates to create a new master race? Would Kirk’s sperm have been effected by Sargon’s possession of his body? And what of Anne’s eggs? Eggs are not constantly remade like sperm… This is one reason I find this show so interesting. It raises all kinds of questions like this. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/270 "2009-07-11T19:11:39Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > You must not be paying close attention… > > Just watched Return to Tomorrow. A good episode, but (again) a few questions/comments: > > If Anne is an astro-biologist, why is she wearing red? She should be in blue. > > If the Sargon people are pure energy and soooo very advanced, etc, how come they kiss etc like we do? How was/is their evolution different than ours? > > Spock makes an excellent evil bad guy–I love how he shocks the hell out of Nurse Chapel by sitting up, giving her a compliment and smiling. I also love her little crush on him. > > How could Kirk not know Anne as an officer? How many female astro-biologists are on board the Enterprise? > > I like the way they swap out lower echelon personnel–that black nurse(?) helping keep Kirk’s body alive, for example. It does convey the idea that there are a few hundred crew on board (I also love how the number varies from show to show). > > I will say that IMO Shatner et al are NOT given enough credit for their acting chops. It must have been supremely difficult to convey their bodies being used by an alien, but they all did it very well. > > Last thing: I’m thinking that Anne the Astro-biologist wanted to boff Kirk all along. But the last scene just exemplifies “awkward!” > 🙂 I can fanwank the Anne examples easily. She was in the middle of not one but two transfers. She was new to the ship (thus explaining Kirk not knowing her) and new to the astrobiology department (having just completed a rotation in Engineering or Security). There’s certainly precedent for the latter; Sulu was in botany for a time, I believe, and I wouldn’t be surprised if officers on the command track are required to move around from department to department. Anyway, she came on board the Enterprise in a hurry and one of her suitcases–the one with the new uniforms–got misplaced. She probably had an order into to Stores for new ones, but in the meantime said, “Screw it. No way I’m telling my new captain I can’t go on an away mission because I have the wrong color dress. Besides, he’ll just be looking t my boobs and legs anyway, from what Nyota tells me.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/271 "2009-07-11T19:15:39Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > As I re-watch all the episodes, one thing that I can’t figure out is where Kirk’s black undershirt goes when he gets his uniform ripped. Are those the days he decides to go commando? I figure the black collars are mandatory but the undershirts are not. Spock always wears his, because he’s adapted for desert enviroment; temperatures that are comfortable for humans are chilly for him. (Recall “The Deadly Years,” when he is artificially aging and more sensitive to these things, and mentions that his te ambient temperature quarters are set to 140 degrees.) McCoy also always wears his; he obviously has some metabolic issue that makes him sensitive to cold; in the Mariette-Hartley-is-ridiculously-hot episode, he gets ill in the extremee cold much more quickly than Spock. Kirk is healthier and sometimes says, “You know, screw it. I’m going for the fake collar today. It’s cooler.” Certainly that would have been his thought when he was beaming down to Vulcan, and I can see him checking the temperature of any planet he was about to visit and changing shirts as approrpriate. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/272 "2009-07-11T21:49:55Z")
And we do see Kirk changing his shirt an awful lot… I always thought the black collar (which I like–the slight asymmetry of it looks good on most folks) was just sewn to the body of the shirt. I did catch a glimpse of Kirk’s undershirt in Return to Yesterday when Sargo possesses his body the first time. Biggest WTF of them all: wasn’t Kirk messing with the Prime Directive of his OWN species by agreeing to allow Sargon et al to build the androids? I somehow think Starfleet would heavily frown on such superior beings being helped by us in that way. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/273 "2009-07-11T22:26:41Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > And we do see Kirk changing his shirt an awful lot… > I always thought the black collar (which I like–the slight asymmetry of it looks good on most folks) was just sewn to the body of the shirt. I did catch a glimpse of Kirk’s undershirt in Return to Yesterday when Sargo possesses his body the first time. In “The Corbomite Manuever” we see Kirk in just the black tee, I think. That’s why I say the uniform code requires that the black collar be visible, but it doesn’t matter whether you’re wearing a black tee-shirt under a tunic with no collar, or a tunic with a high collar. And, as I said, Spock would probably always wear the tee-shirt because gets cold more easily then Jim. > [@](#): > > Biggest WTF of them all: wasn’t Kirk messing with the Prime Directive of his OWN species by agreeing to allow Sargon et al to build the androids? I somehow think Starfleet would heavily frown on such superior beings being helped by us in that way. The Prime Directive says that the Federation can’t screw with less technologically advanced cultures, not that they can’t poach from people ahead of them on the tech scale. And letting Sargon & Co. build the androids was better than leaving them be for the Romulans or Klingons to encounter, as I don’t believe Sargon’s planet was in Federation space. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/274 "2009-07-11T23:37:24Z")
Anyone who wants some ST books should send me a PM. I’ve got quite a few that I’d be willing to part with. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/275 "2009-07-12T01:04:30Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In “The Corbomite Manuever” we see Kirk in just the black tee, I think. That’s why I say the uniform code requires that the black collar be visible, but it doesn’t matter whether you’re wearing a black tee-shirt under a tunic with no collar, or a tunic with a high collar. And, as I said, Spock would probably always wear the tee-shirt because gets cold more easily then Jim. We DO? I must watch that one next–I’d like to see Kirk in just a black T shirt… I like that show a lot, except for the weird looking “baby” at the end–he creeps me the hell out. > [@](#): > > The Prime Directive says that the Federation can’t screw with less technologically advanced cultures, not that they can’t poach from people ahead of them on the tech scale. And letting Sargon & Co. build the androids was better than leaving them be for the Romulans or Klingons to encounter, as I don’t believe Sargon’s planet was in Federation space. But what if (as McCoy points out) the Sargon folk use US as an experiment or just take us over and rule us? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/276 "2009-07-12T01:26:15Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I like that show a lot, except for the weird looking “baby” at the end–he creeps me the hell out. Ron Howard’s [brother.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Howard) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/277 "2009-07-12T01:30:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Ron Howard’s [brother.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Howard) 🙂 Oh, dear God–no wonder he looks vaguely familiar but also so damned alien. And his teeth give me nightmares. Blech. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/278 "2009-07-12T02:09:04Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Just watched Return to Tomorrow. A good episode, but (again) a few questions/comments: Worth the $0.99 for pay per view? Hell, it’s Saturday night; I’ll live it up:cool: ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/279 "2009-07-12T08:52:36Z")
Since it’s my Friday night I went batshit tonight and watched five episodes in a row, 6-10. Episode 9 was the first really weak one I’ve seen. There was no explanation for Dr. Adams to have gone evil and nothing re Kirk’s super-resistance to the neural ray machine. On the other hand, I have a thing now for Dr. Helen Noel! Ooof! Put me in that chair and plant some memories, Doctor! I won’t even have to pay for dinner or a movie. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/280 "2009-07-12T14:55:10Z")
I have to take a slight hiatus from all things TOS this week–I’m reading book 6 of Harry Potter to refresh my mind, working extra days and attending a conference for work (well, a reception for the conference anyways…). But I’ll be back by Friday, probably. I will still comment here, but I can’t watch any more episodes–no time. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182.md?page=15)