# Wait a Sec.... Questions RE Star Trek: TOS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 27, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182 "2009-06-27T16:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/141 "2009-07-02T23:43:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I saw TOS when it first aired, which was when I was in high school, which might have been the perfect age to enjoy it. Sure the effects in TNG are better, sure the acting is kind of better, and sure it didn’t have a season where they just gave up even trying. But the delta between TOS and what went before (Lost in Space :eek: ) was much greater than the delta for TNG. I’m just not sure that if TNG had been the first thing aired, when it was aired, it would have ever inspired the devotion TOS did (and I wrote a letter to NBC demanding it got renewed. ) But like I said, I was probably the right age. I’ll say that the best TOS episodes (which, incidentally, tend to be ones with unhappy endings) are better than the best TNG episodes (which tend to be the ones with happy endings). But that TNG has, proportionately, more good episodes. I don’t care about the special effects; I care about story and character. TOS wins there because it has better focus: it’s almost always about Jim & Spock & McCoy, and everybody else is window dressing. TNG was too often lacking in focus, because they never had less than seven major characters to service in an episode. Incidentally, the TNG-era producers did learn from this when they went on to DS9 (my favorite among the Trek series). They were happy to ship out characters for a given episode if they didn’t belong. > [@](#): > > But would someone get promoted to a position like Commodore without field experience? I thought anyone destined for such a high rank got rotated through several jobs. Maybe Star Fleet is different, but I’d be surprised if someone there could get his ticket punched without deep space experience - for reasons all too evident in the story. I can still believe it. There are probably thousands of Starfleet officers in the science and engineering divisions who are captains but who never see combat, or never do any first contact. In the gladiator episode, whose title I am not currently prepared to admit knowing\*, the captain who is collaborating with the mock-Romans says that starship duty (by which I assume he means Constitution-class starship duty) is different than regular duty–“a special ship, a special crew.” We were talking about the useless commodore from the old age episode I am not going to admit know the title of.\*\* I think his mistake was to try to put himself in the place of a Kirk or a Pike. Successful captains of the Enterprise and ships of her class tend to be ones who break the rules a lot, I suspect. So he said to himself, “What would Jim Kirk do if he were fit for command right now, and I was the one dying?” His answer was “Jim would break the rules”–except he didn’t know what rules to break and what rules not to. \*Okay, it’s “Bread & Circuses.” Why do I know THAT but not the boiling point of mercury? \*\*“The Deadly Years.” And yet I don’t remember how to make alcohol from scratch, despite being taught to build a still in chemistry. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/142 "2009-07-03T00:03:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \*Okay, it’s “Bread & Circuses.” Why do I know THAT but not the boiling point of mercury? > > \*\*“The Deadly Years.” And yet I don’t remember how to make alcohol from scratch, despite being taught to build a still in chemistry. Nah. Too easy. 😃 I dug out a box of skeet loads, so send those flying monkeys! ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/143 "2009-07-03T00:16:58Z")
In the real-word US Navy, [Grace Hopper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper) retired Rear Admiral, Lower Half (which is what a Commodore was renamed to) without ever having been given command. She does have an _Arleigh Burke_-class guided missile destroyer named after her, though. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/144 "2009-07-03T01:53:37Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Well, yes, but I’m _married,_ you see. ’ I must be more geek than I thought because I find I am puzzled by this remark. What can you mean by it? I know you’re married. So am I. And? 😕 My father was a captain (IMS) in the Navy\*–he was a doctor. He never commanded anyone except maybe some nurses here and there. Not only was he a doctor in the Navy, he worked in OB–in the 1950s long before they had female “sailors”. I cannot watch any ST tonight, but I will try to watch The Deadly Years next so that I can comment appropriately. There is NO comparison between TOS and TNG. They are 2 very different shows–I liked TNG, but not like I like TOS. BTW, I can’t stand Westerns (with the exception of Wild Wild West) and don’t consider TOS any type of Western. It has its archetypes, sure, and is close to Westerns, but it’s enough different to satisfy me. And really, that’s all that needs to be done… 😉 _I dunno what his actual rank was or what is typical for navy medical officers. I base his captaincy on M_A_S_H’s captains, which is the Army, so it’s probably totally wrong. I should ask him before he dies… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/145 "2009-07-03T03:14:26Z")
_cough_ Spectre of the Gun _cough_ \ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/146 "2009-07-03T03:29:26Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > ’ > I must be more geek than I thought because I find I am puzzled by this remark. What can you mean by it? I know you’re married. So am I. And? 😕 I was being facetious. Mrs. Plant is a Star Trek fan par excellence and attended some of the first conventions. She is usually correct when we disagree about something in TOS. I defer to her on the subject not because she is my Wife and I’m a milque toast, but because she is usually right. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/147 "2009-07-03T03:42:30Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > _I dunno what his actual rank was or what is typical for navy medical officers. I base his captaincy on M_A_S_H’s captains, which is the Army, so it’s probably totally wrong. I should ask him before he dies… Do that. I was just wishing I had asked my Step Father more about combat in Europe in WWII. In particular, was it weeks of stomping through hedgerows freezing and wet with no one in sight with moments of sheer terror, or shooting at Germans all the way? Even more I’d like to ask my Father, who died when I was 16. I am older now than he when he died. Scary. Ask him. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/148 "2009-07-03T14:48:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Kirk obviously never saw [Zarabeth.](http://www.trekp.com/posters/gw234-zarabeth.jpg) And Mariette Hartley was by far IMheterosexualmaleNSHO the hottest babe ever on TOS. Even more so than [Angelique Pettyjohn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STGameTrisk.jpg) and L[ee Meriweather](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Losira.jpg), both of whom can fight over the #2 and #3 hotbabe positions. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/149 "2009-07-03T14:57:51Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I was being facetious. Mrs. Plant is a Star Trek fan par excellence and attended some of the first conventions. She is usually correct when we disagree about something in TOS. I defer to her on the subject not because she is my Wife and I’m a milque toast, but because she is usually right. Ah. But does she make you wear a red shirt? I will ask my dad–he did whatever was the minimum service in the 50s. He saw no combat or even a skirmish. My parents were newly married, so my mom had to quickly figure out the mine laden obstacle course that is officer’s wives socializing in white gloves and hat. She still bears the scars and suffers terribly from PTSD. 😉 I actually have a life today and am going out tonight, but I hope to watch more TOS tomorrow. Um, just my 2 cents, but Angelique AND Lee are both so NOT hot (to me). Angelique did a great job portraying her character. Lee not so much. Neither of them were anything to get excited over. Mariette, now–she was (and is). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/150 "2009-07-03T15:27:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Ah. But does she make you wear a red shirt? I have not accepted gifts of clothing from her since she took the new life insurance policy out on me. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/151 "2009-07-04T02:38:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I have not accepted gifts of clothing from her since she took the new life insurance policy out on me. I see you are wise. I also suggest you refuse to allow her to practice her Corbomite maneuver on you in bed. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/152 "2009-07-04T02:50:24Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I see you are wise. I also suggest you refuse to allow her to practice her Corbomite maneuver on you in bed. 😉 Testosterone…it is a difficult concept. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/153 "2009-07-04T03:05:41Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I see you are wise. I also suggest you refuse to allow her to practice her Corbomite maneuver on you in bed. 😉 Frankly, any sex act which involves the presence of Clint Howard is a foregone no-go for me… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/154 "2009-07-04T03:43:06Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Frankly, any sex act which involves the presence of Clint Howard is a foregone no-go for me… Excuse me, I thought this was a private chat room. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/155 "2009-07-04T04:23:25Z")
Y’all crack my shit up. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/156 "2009-07-04T05:06:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think he came up through the ranks in Quartermaster’s Corps. When it was important (a draft and a shooting war) I knew my best bet was to weasel my way into the Quartermaster’s Corps. Other losers may go home with a missing leg, but I could go home _at a profit._ Yeah, my favorite show when I was four was “Sergeant Bilko.” Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/157 "2009-07-04T06:13:35Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > … Deela boards the ship (and IMheterosexualfemaleO is by far the hottest female alien Kirk ever sees) … > [@ambushed](#): > > IMhomosexualmaleO, the girl in the H.G. Wells “Time Machine” ripoff episode who goes after Spock is the only female I’ve ever seen in TV or movies who ever got me _really_ goin… And she still does! > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I’m not sure which one that is… I’ll look for the Spock one–but not today. It’s finally nice outside for the first time in weeks and I plan on enjoying it! > [@silenus](#): > > [“All Our Yesterdays”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Our_Yesterdays_(Star_Trek)) with Mariette Hartley as Spock’s hottie. Right fetching she was in her skins (and skin!) > [@eleanorigby](#): > > :smack: > Of course. And to think she sells blinds now on TV… how are the mighty fallen. 🙂 **Nope!** The episode I was referring to is [_The Cloud Minders_]([http://www.cbs.com/classics/star\_trek/video/video.php?cid=649548575&pid=WZK](http://www.cbs.com/classics/star_trek/video/video.php?cid=649548575&pid=WZK) 9qJT1pZun9ve57H8x5uUMU8XRitd0&play=true). The girl I was referring to is named “Droxine”, played by [Diana Ewing](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Diana_Ewing) (head shot [here]([http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/archive/2/24/200601](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/archive/2/24/200601) 23031709!Droxine.jpg), much hotter, full length view [here](http://harperganesvoort.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/droxine-episode.jpg)) and the plot synopsis describes her thus: “She is blond, wearing a shimmering, sky-blue gown – her shoulders and slim midriff are bare; her breasts are held in two strips of the shimmering cloth, which crosses at the neck and extends to a pleated train that trails behind her; a pair of beautiful earrings frame her delicate face.” Some dialog: \*“I have never before met a Vulcan, sir.” “Nor I a work of art, madam.”\* ``` - Droxine and Spock ``` \*“You only take a mate once every seven years?” “The seven-year cycle is biologically inherent in all Vulcans. At that time, the mating drive outweighs all other motivations.” “And is there nothing that can disturb that cycle, Mr. Spock?” “Extreme feminine beauty… is always disturbing, madam.”\* ``` - Droxine and Spock ``` The reason I called the episode a rip-off of H.G. Wells’ _The Time Machine_ is that in that novel and it’s film adaptations, the **Eloi** are beautiful, elegant, cultured people who live above, on the surface, in fine style – while the crude and ugly **Morlocks** live below, underground. In _The Cloud Minders_ episode, the **Ardanans** are beautiful, elegant, cultured people who live above, in the clouds, in fine style – while the crude and ugly **Troglytes** live below, underground. Also, in _The Time Machine_, the Morlocks hate and fear light, exactly as the Troglytes do in _The Cloud Minders_, where they have to wear dark glasses for the same reason. Finally, Wells sharply criticizes class differences between the Eloi and the Morlocks, which is also the key subtext and conflict between the Ardanas and the Troglytes in _The Cloud Minders_. **Diana Ewing** as **Droxine** in that outfit is, again IMhomosexualmaleO, the most strikingly beautiful and by far the _ **hottest** _ woman ever to appear in Star Trek. Yum! And that’s not coming from a bisexual or anything close to that; I’m about a 5.5 on the Kinsey Scale! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/158 "2009-07-04T16:55:03Z")
Apparently Spock got more action than is generally supposed–that Droxine WAS hot for his form, no? And she was beautiful as well. But she was not Mariette Hartley (which is why we were all confused). No time for ST today, perhaps tomorrow… I’ll watch The Deadly Years this time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/159 "2009-07-04T19:37:11Z")
What does IM…O mean as IMsexualpreferenceO ? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182/160 "2009-07-04T19:41:18Z")
In my \ opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-questions-re-star-trek-tos/501182.md?page=9)