# Wait a sec...You call the wind 'Mariah'?! Why? (The Paint Your Wagon thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512 "2001-11-15T12:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/1 "2001-11-15T12:27:17Z")
This thread doesn’t quite fit (it’s a discussion about media in the form of a rant, containing a general question. I guessed and put it here.) So a buddy of mine and I were discussing lame movie musicals and, after mentioning “Can’t Stop the Music” and that Cole Porter one with Burt Reynolds and Cybil Sheppard (“At Long Last, Love”), he brought up “Paint Your Wagon” and I replied with my standard “True, but don’t forget that the stage version and the movie have nothing in common but some songs.” He said “Yeah, but the songs are lame and the original stunk too, just not as bad.” I started to protest, but realized: he was right. “Where am I goin’? I don’t know! When’ll I get there? I ain’t certain. All thet I know Is I am on my way Got a dream, boy! Got a song! Paint yer wagon An’ come along!” Plus one more equally vapid verse, all repeated for 27 minutes (ok, actually about 4 minutes…but it feels like 27.) And while we’re at it, "Hand me down that can o’ beans Hand me down that can o’ beans Hand me down that can o’ beans We’re throwin’ them away Out the winder go the beans Out the winder go the beans Out the winder go the beans (We had?) a lucky day" Repeated over and over. Y’got _paid_ to write those lyrics, did you Mssrs Lerner and Lowe? Nice work if you can get it. Apparently the talent that would bring us Camelot and My Fair Lady, and brought us Brigadoon, decided not to put much effort into Paint Your Wagon. But the worst part is that I started _thinking_ about the lyrics. Marion’s song “My White Knight” in Music Man shows nuances to her character and makes her better rounded. The soliliquy in Carousel does the same to Billy. He changes from a thug to a desperate man in that song. What do we learn about the characters in Paint Your Wagon? …apparently that they’ve been eating mouldy rye bread and accidentily ingested proto-LSD given some of their songs: “I talk to the trees But they don’t listen to me I talk to the stars But they do not hear me” …and you’re surprised? I gotta get you and Neil Diamond ( “I am! I said. To no one there And no-one heard at all Not even the chair” ) together, since he’s _also_ surprised that inanimate objects tend to be non-responsive. But the weirdest song is the most famous. And the most incoherent. “a-Way out here They gotta name Fer rain ‘n’ wind ‘n’ fire Th’ rain is Tess Th’ fire’s Jo An’ they call th’ wind Mariah” Where the hell _are_ they? Floppsy-Bunsy Land? (“And Mr HappySun shined with ALLLLL his might on Floppsy-Bunny and dried him out after Mean Mrs Rain got him AALLLLL wet”) Outside of particularly trecealy kid’s books, where else do natural phenomena get names? On the other hand, he’s disappointed that he’s being snubbed by plants, so there’s some consistancy. I thought they were tough hard-bitten prospectors in the Yukon. Can you imagine a tough, hard-bitten prospector saying the following sentence? “Hey Frank. Mariah wuz blowin’ pretty hard and now it’s Tessing on the Jo. Maybe I should put Jo out an’ come inside before it gets colder and Tess turns into Agnes. Or even Gladys! And tomorrow’s gonna be a bitch if it Gladyses. I don’t wanna shlep to work through 4 feet of Gladys. Shit! I just stubbed my toe on an Elizabeth that was covered by Gladys.” Is this dialect (of naming natural phenomena after women) actually based on anything, or were they just looking for words that’d rhyme? What in the world were Lerner and Lowe thinking? It wasn’t inexperience, they’d alread done “Brigadoon” and had two more classics coming. This is just…bad. (Although the stage version was _less_ bad than the movie.) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/2 "2001-11-15T12:57:02Z")
Oh I-iiiiiii was booo-oooorn, under a wannnnnnndrin staaaaarrr… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/3 "2001-11-15T13:21:16Z")
“Be they dead?” “They better be, I’m buryin’ 'em!” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/4 "2001-11-15T14:42:18Z")
Actually, the fire is _Joe_ – I’ve seen the sheet music. But otherwise I agree; PYW has some freakin’ weird lyrics. I blame the drugs. OTOH, how can you quibble with lyrics like: _Sodom had sin, and vice versa But I’ll show you where the sin is worser! Here it is, brother, here it is!_ or _The best things in life are dirty! There’s nothing worse than Waking up clean Without a bean._ ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/5 "2001-11-15T14:59:04Z")
What? **Paint Your Wagon** is a great movie! Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin singing and dacing! “Paint Your Wagon” “With Blood I bet!” . . . _Gonna paint your wagon, Gonna paint it good. We ain’t braggin’, We’re gonna coat that wood!_ “Ooh, here comes Lee Marvin, he’s always drunk!” Lee Marvin: What’s goin’ on here? Clint Eastwood: We’re painting this wagon. You got a problem with that? Lee: As a matter of fact I do…you missed a spot. Clint: Well grab a brush and start paintin’! _Gonna paint your wagon, Gonna paint it fine. Gonna used oil-based paint, 'Cause the wood is pine._ “I thought it was toe-tappin’ fun!” ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/6 "2001-11-15T15:22:52Z")
Well, sure, it’s no **Bugsy Malone** … ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/7 "2001-11-15T15:30:59Z")
It’s no **The First Nudie Musical** , either. Or {The Creature That Wasn’t Nice\*\* (which features the touching ballad “I Want To Eat Your Face”). I’m serious about these. The work of Bruce Kimmel. Look them up. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/8 "2001-11-15T15:39:44Z")
Wait–I thought Joe was the coffee. Frankly, I liked it better when “Mariah” made me think of that song. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/9 "2001-11-15T15:47:42Z")
I just assumed they called the wind Mariah because it shrieks and blows, and prolonged exposure can leave you cold… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > **It’s no The First Nudie Musical, either. Or {The Creature That Wasn’t Nice** (which features the touching ballad “I Want To Eat Your Face”). > I’m serious about these. The work of Bruce Kimmel. Look them up. \*\* Seen them both. The first one had Carrie Fisher in it; I can only assume this was during her drug addict years. It was painful to watch. The second film was much funnier, especially the aforementioned musical number. Essentially a low-budget **Alien** spoof. And hey – what’s wrong with **Bugsy Malone**? Don’t you _like_ Paul Williams? Next thing, you’ll tell me you didn’t like **Phantom of the Paradise** either… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/10 "2001-11-15T15:49:10Z")
Remember the mines of “Moria” in Tolkien’s _Lord of the Rings_? Well, I used to pronounce it like “Mariah” 'cause I didn’t know any better. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/11 "2001-11-15T22:21:05Z")
Actually I like PYW. The songs aren’t all that great but they really aren’t any worse than “On The Street Where You Live”(My Fair Lady) or “Gary, Indiana”(The Music Man) Those two show are “classics” but they have songs that suck too. I like lines like “Oooo, but these religious dogs are bloody _greedy_ aren’t they?” or “Just what the hell is your name anyway?” _or_ “I was married to a man with two wives, why can’t a woman have two husbands?” It’s a fun show that I don’t try to analyze too much. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/12 "2001-11-15T23:44:31Z")
I’m rather partial to the song “The First Thing You Know”: God made the mountains God made the sky God made the people God knows why He fixed up the planet As good as he could Then in come the people And gum it up good ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/13 "2001-11-16T02:50:51Z")
I have a horrible admission to make. I love musicals. Watched the in the movies. Grew up going to them on Broaday. Bought the libretti or the published version and read 'em. But I’ve never seen PYW on stage or on screen. Never elt any desire to. Not even to hear Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin sing. > [@](#): > > Seen them both. The first one had Carrie Fisher in it; I can only assume this was during her drug addict years. It was painful to watch Nope, no Carrie Fisher. - both films had Cindy Williams in them, though. And Ron Howard(!) has a cameo in TFNM, and Patrick MacNee stars in TCTWN. Strange stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/14 "2001-11-17T21:49:54Z")
Hey, **GuanoLad** : that’s “I was booooooorn under a stooooolen car!” …wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/15 "2001-11-18T07:14:48Z")
You know, until I read this thread, I was convinced that _Paint Your Wagon_ was a Simpsons’ gag… :o Scary. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/16 "2001-11-18T13:10:11Z")
Didn’t George Carlin use that song in one of his routines? He’d just start singing: \*Oh, way out west We have a name For wind and rain and fire. The first is wind The second’s rain And we call the third…the fire\* I thought it was funny. Maybe it was Carlin’s delivery. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/17 "2001-11-19T09:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > Nope, no Carrie Fisher. - both films had Cindy Williams in them, though. And Ron Howard(!) has a cameo in TFNM, and Patrick MacNee stars in TCTWN. Strange stuff. \*\* I stand corrected. But it’s been a looooong time. ---
**Author:** ![vrpratt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a183cd/32.png) [@vrpratt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vrpratt)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/18 "2017-10-08T05:36:32Z")
The history of those who mocked those who named winds after people begins with Alfred H.B. Conroy, Member of Parliament for Werriwa, NSW, Australia, 1903-?. The mockee was Clement L. Wragge, Superintendent of the Chief Weather Bureau, QLD, who since 1894 had been naming South Pacific cyclones, first with letters of various alphabets—Hebrew, Greek, Illyrian—and then with personal and place names. Among other names, in March 1899 he “called the wind Mahina”, one of several “dulcet bubbling South Seas Islands names” for various cyclones, Mahina being perhaps the most deadly. When Australia became a Commonwealth in 1901 Wragge applied for federal funding for his weather bureau. Not long after, Conroy stepped in to mock Wragge as a “Hottentot rain god” and “an advertising scientist”. Another Australian politician compared Wragge to a child naming waves. An embittered man without funding, Wragge retired to New Zealand. More about Wragge at ftp://ftp.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/pub/dorst/Mahina.pptx and about Mahina at [http://www.afloat.com.au/afloat-magazine/2009/august-2009/They\_called\_the\_wind\_Mahina#.WdmypzBrzSI](http://www.afloat.com.au/afloat-magazine/2009/august-2009/They_called_the_wind_Mahina#.WdmypzBrzSI) and at [Cyclone Mahina 1899 - Geography bibliographies - Cite This For Me](http://www.citethisforme.com/topic-ideas/geography/Cyclone%20Mahina%201899-11278686) . So when did Mahina become Maria? Quoting from the Wikipedia article on American historian and novelist George R. Stewart, "His 1941 novel _Storm_, featuring as its protagonist a Pacific storm called “Maria,” prompted the National Weather Service to use personal names to designate storms and inspired Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe to write the song “They Call the Wind Maria” for their 1951 musical Paint Your Wagon. Sorry but I know nothing about a rain named Tess or a fire named Joe. Vaughan Pratt ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/19 "2017-10-08T12:15:04Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **vrpratt**. Re: History of storm-namer mockers I think you’re going to fit in well here. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512/20 "2017-10-08T13:59:14Z")
> [@ioioio](#): > > I think you’re going to fit in well here. Not if he keeps replying 16 years after everyone else. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-a-sec-you-call-the-wind-mariah-why-the-paint-your-wagon-thread/93512.md?page=2)