# Wait.... Jesus was white? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2023, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199 "2023-02-02T09:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/21 "2023-02-02T15:40:00Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > And the sad thing is that the Romans didn’t care even a tenth as much about ethnic features as modern Americans do. You expect them to tell barbarians apart? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/22 "2023-02-02T15:47:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You expect them to tell barbarians apart? Were the Jews considered barbarians? I thought the Romans used the term for those blond haired and blued eyed people from across the Danube 😜. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/23 "2023-02-02T15:54:22Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Were the Jews considered barbarians? I thought the Romans used the term for those blond haired and blued eyed people from across the Danube 😜. Anyone who wasn’t Roman was a barbarian, although they made an exception for the Greeks and possibly the Egyptians. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/24 "2023-02-02T15:55:20Z")
Indeed! Race is a modern construction created to manage colonies and plantations. I am sure in the ancient world there was no shortage of other ways of dividing people up.A most challenging part of understanding history is to understand these political divisions. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/25 "2023-02-02T15:55:58Z")
And conversely if you were a Roman citizen you were a Roman citizen and could rise even to Emperor (if enough of the army was behind you). ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/26 "2023-02-02T15:56:33Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > There are pages and pages of the Old Testament where the exact lineage of famous Israelites is traced through many generations. So-and-so begat so-and-so begat so-and-so begat so-and-so and infinitum. When scripture references say that Jesus was “of the house and lineage of David”, that is exactly what they mean. Are these generally considered to be accurate, though? I know some of the really old ones include rather improbable ages, and IIRC there are two different genealogies given to tie Jesus back to David. It all seems a bit post-hoc to me. I guess I would put a lot more stock in what typically happens in regions with multiple ethnic groups and various occupying forces - lots of admixture. It seem very unlikely that “pure Israelite” was even a thing by the time Jesus lived. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/27 "2023-02-02T15:59:08Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Are these generally considered to be accurate, though? If you are going to take the Bible’s word that Jesus even existed you might as well assume the rest is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/28 "2023-02-02T15:59:39Z")
Do you believe this describes Jesus, not to be born for 600 years? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/29 "2023-02-02T16:02:03Z")
Well, not really… I think each claim should be evaluated on its own merits. Jesus’ existence at least has some non-biblical evidence (limited, yes, but some). As well as some inferential support (lots of followers within a relatively short time after his purported existence). But the genealogies, particularly since they are divergent, have much less support as being factually accurate. The reek of being created after-the-fact to support claims of fulfilling OT prophesy. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/30 "2023-02-02T16:02:40Z")
We’re getting a bit distracted. The genealogies were about a legitimacy of descent for public acceptance purposes. Meanwhile the prophecy about some figure that was not visibly different from those around, was retconned centuries later into referring to Jesus. But _regardless of any of that_ the major point is the historic Jesus would have looked like however the average Galilean Jew of the 1st centuries BCE and CE looked. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/31 "2023-02-02T16:02:43Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > Do you believe this describes Jesus, not to be born for 600 years? ⁢ I believe that early Christians believed it applied to Jesus. So if they thought it fit… ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/32 "2023-02-02T16:09:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > _He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to Him, nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him._ Isaiah 53:2 > > That chapter seems to be talking specifically about the Lord during his ordeal and cruxifixction, where elsewhere it was said he didn’t even have the appearance of a man after the beatings of the roman solders. Isaiah, the greatest of the prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures, is generally taken by Christians to have prophesied about the coming of Jesus, and his sacrificial role (the “Suffering Servant”). For example, Handel’s Messiah relies upon Isaiah for much of the text. Jesus is depicted as a western European in western European countries and in many former British colonies. In African countries he is usually Black, and so forth. It isn’t a literal representation of what he looked like, unless you are uneducated and simple. There is nothing anywhere to suggest that Jesus was not a Jew who looked like other Judean Jews. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/33 "2023-02-02T16:35:17Z")
They hadn’t invented paper bags yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/34 "2023-02-02T16:39:11Z")
From what I have read - and correct me if I’m wrong - the original, indigenous inhabitants of what is now “The Levant” - Israel, Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon - were called the “Canaanites.” These people then divided into distinct kingdoms - the Israelites, the Judeans, the Moabites, the Aramites, the Philistines, and the Phoenecians. The Phoenecians became expert seafarers and would later expand an empire that included Cyprus, Sicily, Sardinia, Malta, and most famously, Carthage, which was in what is now Tunisia. Would it be correct to say that Jesus would have looked like a Phoenecian? Since I am of the impression that the Phoenecians fell under the category of “Canaanite” along with the Judeans, Israelites, Philistines and these other Levantine kingdoms who are all ultimately from the same Canaanite ancestry? This may seem off-topic but I would assume that since the Phoenecians were the most widespread and powerful of these ancient peoples, there would be more depictions of what they looked like, and hence, to use as a basis for the “real” appearance of Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/35 "2023-02-02T16:46:56Z")
A friend of my wife has 2 pictures of Jesus on her wall, one is the good looking white guy, the other is a darker skinned fellow with short dark curly hair and a scruffy beard. I asked her which one is the real Jesus, she said she doesn’t care. She also said if he is ever resurrected, she thinks he would look more like the dark skinned guy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/36 "2023-02-02T16:49:48Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > From what I have read - and correct me if I’m wrong - the original, indigenous inhabitants of what is now “The Levant” - Israel, Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon - were called the “Canaanites.” These people then divided into distinct kingdoms - the Israelites, the Judeans, the Moabites, the Aramites, the Philistines, and the Phoenecians. The Phoenecians became expert seafarers and would later expand an empire that included Cyprus, Sicily, Sardinia, Malta, and most famously, Carthage, which was in what is now Tunisia. A few corrections - what is now Syria was inhabited by related but separate peoples: the Arameans and the Assyrians (hence the name). The Philistines, in turn, were a foreign nation (probably from the Aegean) that adapted the Canaanite culture and religion and were ultimately assimilated. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/37 "2023-02-02T16:53:53Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Isaiah, the greatest of the prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures, i Really? Greater than Moses? Samuel? Elijah? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/38 "2023-02-02T16:54:53Z")
To the Christians, yes. Because Isaiah wrote stuff that they interpret to be about Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/39 "2023-02-02T17:06:04Z")
In the absence of other evidence the closest you’ll get in my opinion is saying a Semitic-speaking resident of Palestine in 0AD looks approximately the same as a Semitic-speaking resident of Palestine in 2023AD. Yeah there has been some population movement in the intervening 2 millennia, and language is not an exact indicator of ethnicity, but absent of a time machine thats as good as you’re going to get There were a few humorous comments about a [“scientific” reconstruction of Jesus looking like DJ Khaled](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/149/699/dfd.jpg), which my reaction was “well duh, a Semitic-speaking 30-something from Palestine looks like a Semitic-speaking 30-something from Palestine. who’d a thunk it?” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199/40 "2023-02-02T17:39:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I believe that early Christians believed it applied to Jesus. So if they thought it fit… Well, all these comparisons (mostly but not totally to Isaiah) come from Matthew, who was probably a well-educated Jewish convert to early Christianity writing in an attempt to give Jesus “legitimacy” in order to convert others. Not a new tactic in history by any means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-jesus-was-white/979199.md?page=3)