# "Wait, what?" Actual or potential Obama disillusionment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778 "2008-11-28T07:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/1 "2008-11-28T07:02:34Z")
We are already seeing this on the SDMB. Obama supporters are being disappointed/enraged/whatever by his choices as he prepares to take office. E.g., his choices of longtime Beltway insiders as opposed to his promises of “Change”. The question is: what has he already done to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”, or what might he do in the future to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”? **MODS** : This is more of a IMHO, but I suspect it will end up in GD. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/2 "2008-11-28T07:55:19Z")
I think the people complaining about “beltway insiders” in Obama’s administration were generally not Obama supporters to begin with – just people looking to complain. If he picks people who know how to get things done in Washington, he gets accused of not being “Changy” enough, and if he picks picks people who _aren’t_ familiar with Washington politics, he’d get flack for their “inexperience.” Really, when Obama talked about “Change”, he was talking about change _relative to the Bush administration_. His primary criticism of McCain was that he was _not_ a big enough change from Bush. I don’t see any evidence that Obama is bringing in people who are too politically similar to Bush’s inner circle. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/3 "2008-11-28T08:01:54Z")
By the way, what exactly is the point of starting a thread to complain about things that Obama _might hypothetically do_? Would it be so bad to at least _wait until he’s sworn in_ before declaring what a disappointment he is? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/4 "2008-11-28T08:38:19Z")
Indeed. If one can work themselves up two months before the guy even takes office, they’re looking at four years of self-inflicted agony. He’s a President-Elect, not a beatification candidate. He’s gonna screw up sooner or later, and probably in some particularly impressive and entertaining fashion as all past Presidents have and all future Presidents will, but there’s no point fretting about it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/5 "2008-11-28T09:42:33Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > We are already seeing this on the SDMB. Obama supporters are being disappointed/enraged/whatever by his choices as he prepares to take office. E.g., his choices of longtime Beltway insiders as opposed to his promises of “Change”. > > The question is: what has he already done to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”, or what might he do in the future to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”? > > **MODS** : This is more of a IMHO, but I suspect it will end up in GD. This is just the Right gearing themselves up for another ‘whatever it takes’ attempt to harass an ‘illegitimate,’ as in ‘not Republican’ President on any grounds whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/6 "2008-11-28T10:05:22Z")
He didn’t make me Secretary of Pie. Bastard. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/7 "2008-11-28T10:46:30Z")
I’ve often complained of my deteriorating memory but I don’t recall any Obama supporters on the SDMB being enraged by Obama’s choices of assistants, cabinet members, etc., etc. Some people may have been disappointed in some of his choices but enraged seems a little severe. [Here](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27947018/) is a story from MSNBC that I read this morning; it seems to me the OP must have read the same story. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/8 "2008-11-28T13:09:18Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > The question is: what has he already done to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”, or what might he do in the future to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”? Since he hasn’t done anything yet, nothing has garnered that reaction from me. In the future – _not_ putting a plan in motion to withdraw troops, _not_ attempting to enact a health care plan, or _not_ following through on promises of transparency would do the trick. It’s really strange to hear the “That’s not change!” mantra, especially if you pay attention to the reasons it’s being claimed. For instance, in another thread, **Shodan** has asserted that Obama’s current tax policy is strongly reminiscent of Bush’s. In the words of the OP – _ **Wait, what?** _ I also saw a Maddow segment on MSNBC probing the question; my exact thought was, “If that’s what you think ‘change’ is, then you weren’t paying attention to anything he’s said for the past two years.” I get the feeling we’re going to be seeing a lot more of this in the near future. Hopefully, once he, y’know, _actually starts governing_, it’ll die off somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/9 "2008-11-28T13:54:05Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > We are already seeing this on the SDMB. And y’all are who? > [@](#): > > Obama supporters are being disappointed/enraged/whatever by his choices as he prepares to take office. E.g., his choices of longtime Beltway insiders as opposed to his promises of “Change”. Didn’t know Shodan was an Obama supporter/worshiper/whatever. > [@](#): > > The question is: what has he already done to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”, or what might he do in the future to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”? I disagree. > [@](#): > > **MODS** : This is more of a IMHO, but I suspect it will end up in GD. Maybe MPSIMS. You might be able to suck a few people in over there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/10 "2008-11-28T14:42:17Z")
There’s potential disillusionment, but I think the actual disillusionment probably looks overstated due to the fact that the press is starting to look for it, and Dopers (who are more politically active than most people and also largely on the left) are more likely to be disappointed than most other groups. I’ve seen the same question asked in several of these threads, and I’ve asked it myself: if people are disappointed with his appointments and hirings, who or what did they expect? If you’re picking someone to run a federal bureaucracy or trying to get laws passed, why _wouldn’t_ you want someone with experience in the DC world? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/11 "2008-11-28T14:47:10Z")
I myself am planning to be heartbroken when he vetoes the “Everybody Gets a Kitten” Act in 2011. I practice in front of a mirror three hours a day. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/12 "2008-11-28T17:08:28Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > We are already seeing this on the SDMB. Obama supporters are being disappointed/enraged/whatever by his choices as he prepares to take office. E.g., his choices of longtime Beltway insiders as opposed to his promises of “Change”. > > The question is: what has he already done to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”, or what might he do in the future to make you say “ **Wait, what**?”? > > **MODS** : This is more of a IMHO, but I suspect it will end up in GD. So what you are saying is that people are not blindly and unquestioningly following Obama like he is the Messiah? You mean people are not blindly and unquestioningly approving everything he does? Isn’t this a good thing and a sign of intelligent people? You make it sound like something negative but what I find negative is the people who followed GWB no matter what and would have voted for him and his policies no matter what. I was critical of GWB and I will be critical of Obama when he does things which I don’t like. And he has already done some things which I am not entirely in agreement with. So what? He is a million times better choice than McCain. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/13 "2008-11-28T17:11:08Z")
I find it starnge that obama is hiring the same gang of lowlifes (rom the Clinton adminstrations), who started us on the road to ruin. All of this amounts to one thing: hyperinflation. Buy gold. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/14 "2008-11-28T17:19:35Z")
I’ve been disappointed at his support of the auto bailout. But when I mentioned it I got jumped on by people screaming that he isn’t president yet so I can’t judge. I don’t see why I can’t have opinion on things he does before he is president. Shrug. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/15 "2008-11-28T18:05:10Z")
Most of my “Wait, what?” moments have been in reaction to the complaints. With all the bitching here and elsewhere about Eric Holder I had assumed the man had been caught felching puppies, but the worst I could find was that he’d advised Clinton about a pardon in a potentially inappropriate manner. Oh noes! I’m saving my outrage for Dr Pepper. And the kitten thing. Dammit, I want free soda AND free kittens. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/16 "2008-11-28T18:26:18Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I find it starnge that obama is hiring the same gang of lowlifes (rom the Clinton adminstrations), who started us on the road to ruin. All of this amounts to one thing: hyperinflation. > Buy gold. Screw that! Buy guns, point them at people with gold, and say, “Gimme!” 😃 I shouldn’t need to say this, but yes, I’m kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/17 "2008-11-28T18:33:55Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Really, when Obama talked about “Change”, he was talking about change _relative to the Bush administration_. His primary criticism of McCain was that he was _not_ a big enough change from Bush. I don’t see any evidence that Obama is bringing in people who are too politically similar to Bush’s inner circle. I’m a Republican, but pretty much favored Obama over McCain. At the start, I was actually kind of crazy about Obama. I wasn’t swept up in Obama-mania, but I did really like him. As time went on, I became disillusioned over some things, but at the end, I still favored him. The main reason was his message of change. I thought, and he made it seem, that he was talking about complete change. I really didn’t think he mean change **ONLY** from the Bush, and a return to the Clinton administration, but change from all of it. I guess I was just naive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/18 "2008-11-28T18:36:32Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > By the way, what exactly is the point of starting a thread to complain about things that Obama _might hypothetically do_? Would it be so bad to at least _wait until he’s sworn in_ before declaring what a disappointment he is? You might think so, but the second-guessing is already starting. That’s inevitable given the high expectations Obama accepted from his movement (and yes, it was something more than a “campaign”). Also inevitable in light of all the urgent problems everyone wants solved **now.** And there really **is** something reasonable to it, or so says [William Greider:](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081208/greider_web?rel=hp_currently) > [@](#): > > A year ago, when Barack Obama said it was time to turn the page, his campaign declaration seemed to promise a fresh start for Washington. I, for one, failed to foresee Obama would turn the page backward. The president-elect’s lineup for key governing positions has opted for continuity, not change. Virtually all of his leading appointments are restoring the Clinton presidency, only without Mr. Bill. In some important ways, Obama’s selections seem designed to sustain the failing policies of George W. Bush. > > This is not the last word and things are changing rapidly. But Obama’s choices have begun to define him. His victory, it appears, was a triumph for the cautious center-right politics that has described the Democratic party for several decades. Those of us who expected more were duped, not so much by Obama but by our own wishful thinking. > > Let us stipulate that these are all honorable people, smart and experienced veterans of Washington combat. But they represent the Democratic party that mainly sees itself as managerial–making government work better. The long era of conservative dominance has taught them to keep their distance from big reform ideas that promise fundamental change of the system. Their operating style is incremental and cautiously practical. They conscientiously avoid (or actively block) propositions that sound too liberal or radical. Alas, Obama is coming to power at a critical moment when incrementalism is irrelevant. The system is in collapse. Financial chaos won’t wait for patient deliberations. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/19 "2008-11-28T18:48:00Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I’m a Republican, but pretty much favored Obama over McCain. At the start, I was actually kind of crazy about Obama. I wasn’t swept up in Obama-mania, but I did really like him. As time went on, I became disillusioned over some things, but at the end, I still favored him. > > The main reason was his message of change. I thought, and he made it seem, that he was talking about complete change. I really didn’t think he mean change **ONLY** from the Bush, and a return to the Clinton administration, but change from all of it. I guess I was just naive. How is he “returning to the Clinton Administration”? By appointing a few Clinton insiders? Important to remember that Cabinet posts are not entry level jobs, so finding people with experience is both necessary and wise. It would certainly qualify as CHANGE if Obama appointed Joe the Plumber as Secretary of the Treasury and my Aunt Edna as Secretary of State, but is that the type of drastic change you were hoping for? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/20 "2008-11-28T18:53:00Z")
Anyone who thought Obama wouldn’t govern as a slightly left leaning pragmatic moderate in the later Clinton mold wasn’t paying a lick of attention to him during the campaign. He stated his policies pretty clearly on his website and in his book. Also I think with the various crises and wars he’s inheriting he’s not going to be able to much more than clean up and crisis management. Frankly, outside of HRC herself, I like his appointments. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778.md?page=2)