# "Wait, what?" Actual or potential Obama disillusionment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778 "2008-11-28T07:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/21 "2008-11-28T18:56:03Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Also I think with the various crises and wars he’s inheriting he’s not going to be able to much more than clean up and crisis management. I’m not sure about that. The magnitude of some of these problems gives him the chance to offer equally large solutions, if he’s so inclined. To my mind, the evidence so far says he is. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/22 "2008-11-28T19:05:56Z")
From early on in the election season I have been saying that I look forward to complaining about President Obama. So far I have been disappointed: nothing to complain about President-elect Obama so far. Damn. Of course he will disappoint me in some things. He has not subscribed to my newsletter so he can’t know all of the right answers. Hiring competent people based on skill sets more than partisan dogma who can actually get to work on day one? Doesn’t disappoint. That he would surround himself with the best of the old Clinton teams is not a surprise to anyone who was paying attention: from early in the campaign against Hillary it was easily noted that more of the old Clinton team had coalesced around Obama than Hillary and that he would use the best minds where ever he found them. He cares about getting the job done. National and planet loyalty cards. Not personal loyalty cards. (And that btw is a change.) I will feel free to bitch when I believe he fucks up and I am sure that I will find those things to bitch about. There hasn’t been a President yet who hasn’t screwed up some in some way as best as I know. Highly doubtful that he will be much different. So far he just hasn’t had much of a chance to screw up. Give the man a chance. Have some patience kids. Wait for it. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/23 "2008-11-28T19:08:31Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > How is he “returning to the Clinton Administration”? By appointing a few Clinton insiders? Important to remember that Cabinet posts are not entry level jobs, so finding people with experience is both necessary and wise. > > It would certainly qualify as CHANGE if Obama appointed Joe the Plumber as Secretary of the Treasury and my Aunt Edna as Secretary of State, but is that the type of drastic change you were hoping for? I’m not saying that I wanted him to appoint unqualified people, but there are people who are both qualified, **and** not from the Clinton administration. But at any rate, I guess we’ll have to wait until Obama is sworn in. I’ll concede that is is possible to have high ranking cabinet officials from the Clinton administration, and not have what would amount to a third Clinton term. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/24 "2008-11-28T19:11:04Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Didn’t know Shodan was an Obama supporter/worshiper/whatever. C’mon, **Lib**. My mention of **Shodan** was part of an implied parenthetical discussing the “That’s not change” line, wholly incidental to the OP. > [@Gyrate](#): > > With all the bitching here and elsewhere about Eric Holder I had assumed the man had been caught felching puppies, but the worst I could find was that he’d advised Clinton about a pardon in a potentially inappropriate manner. Oh noes! I haven’t looked into it, nor do I take issue with the Holder choice, but I’m pretty sure there was a bit more to it. Like he waffled on waterboarding as torture and/or supported wireless wiretapping. Things like that. (Oh, and in case it’s not clear, obviously he didn’t do that in his position as ADA under Clinton, but said as much during Bush’s terms.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/25 "2008-11-28T19:13:06Z")
> [@Barack Obama](#): > > “I am new enough on the national political scene that I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views. As such, I am bound to disappoint some, if not all, of them.” _The Audacity of Hope_, p.11. Sometime in the four years subsequent to next January 20, he is going to actually have to do something. You can get elected (apparently) being a Rorshach inkblot, but you can’t govern as one. He’s never had to learn that lesson before. Let’s see how fast he learns it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/26 "2008-11-28T19:35:09Z")
I heard Karl Rove, of all people, defend Obama’s choices by pointing out that in order to hire experienced Democrats for his cabinet, he basically had a choice between hiring people from the Bush administration or people from the Carter administration. Most of the pundits and columnists I’ve seen working the “Do you call this CHANGE?” angle are conservatives hoping to turn the liberal base against Obama. The bottom line is that the _policies_ he pursues will still be his own. He’s hiring people who are experienced and able _technicians_, but they’re going to be implementing Obama’s policies, not their own. I know some people were disappointed about Lieberman, and I know some people might be a little chagrined that he’s taking a very centrist, measured approach so far, but that just shows what I thought all along. Barack Obama is not a wild-eyed idealogue but a cold-blooded pragmatist. I think that’s what Presidents _have_ to be. Clinton certainly was. Bush was an idealogue, and look where that got us. I think that the liberal base will basically be satisfied if Obama can manage to make progress ina few significant areas – setting a withdrawal plan for Iraq, making some headway – any headway at all on the economy, stopping the right wing slide on the Supreme Court, rebuilding US relationships with the rest of the world, ending executive abuses like wire-tapping, closing Guantanamo and a few other things. Mainly just stopping and beginning to reverse the damage done by 8 years of You Know Who. There are always going to be some left wingnuts who aren’t going to think he’s liberal enough juts like there are always right wingnuts who never think any Republican POTUS is conservative enough, but those people (on both sides) aren’t going anywhere at the end of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/27 "2008-11-28T20:42:06Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Screw that! Buy guns, point them at people with gold, and say, “Gimme!” 😃 > > I shouldn’t need to say this, but yes, I’m kidding. Way ahead of you… Good luck finding any guns now! MWA HA HA HAA! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/28 "2008-11-28T20:43:26Z")
I’m very unhappy with his pick of Eric Holder for Attorney General. The Drug War is the most socially destructive policy in this nation, and the fact that there is no one actually challenging it is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/29 "2008-11-28T20:53:16Z")
Obama was on Barbara Walters last night and she brought up this “doesn’t look like change” meme, and he basically said, “_I_ am the agent of change. I’m bringing in people with proven track records of making things happen that can bring about the change that I promised.” Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/30 "2008-11-28T23:09:24Z")
what kind of tardmuffin rips on a guy who hasnt even shown up for his first day on the job yet? just curious. I totally understand wanting things to get going 6 years ago to reverse the damage the current administration has done but this ain’t and episode of Hero’s where Peter is gonna poof back to “Now” and say we have to do things differently…we actually have to wait, maybe even a year or more to see if hes any good at this. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/31 "2008-11-28T23:22:16Z")
**Critical1** He has started doing things though, he’s started hiring people. That’s a significant thing, and that’s what people are commenting on. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/32 "2008-11-28T23:32:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Critical1** He has started doing things though, he’s started hiring people. That’s a significant thing, and that’s what people are commenting on. well its a bit more than that, I am hearing "omg he hired X?!?!?!?!? hes just Clinton 2.0 and all I am saying is yeah a bit early to make that call. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/33 "2008-11-29T00:30:26Z")
Seems like he’s going to keep Gates on as SecDef (at least for awhile). That’ll piss off a lot of the far left, but personally, I think it’s a smart thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/34 "2008-11-29T00:32:54Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > He didn’t make me Secretary of Pie. Bastard. Me neither. Boy, I tell ya, my husband’s relieved. 😉 (Oh, and as for the OP, I’ve mostly heard the 'Wait,what?" talk from Republican voters too. I think I’ve figured out why none of them could “figure out what he stands for” before the election - surely nothing he’s done is surprising to anyone who’s read his website!) ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/35 "2008-11-29T00:42:41Z")
I personally _relish_ the idea of Clinton 2.0. An improved and updated version of Clinton, without all the bugs of the first release? Sign me up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/36 "2008-11-29T01:45:47Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I find it starnge that obama is hiring the same gang of lowlifes (rom the Clinton adminstrations), who started us on the road to ruin. All of this amounts to one thing: hyperinflation. > Buy gold. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t we have another administration somewhere between Clinton and Obama? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/37 "2008-11-29T02:34:49Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I find it starnge that obama is hiring the same gang of lowlifes (rom the Clinton adminstrations), who started us on the road to ruin. All of this amounts to one thing: hyperinflation. > Buy gold. That’s probably not what we have to watch out for. [Quite the reverse and much worse.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=494054) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/38 "2008-11-29T02:36:54Z")
I actually _hope_ that the community here doesn’t blindly follow and drool over his every decision (or just sweep them under the rug) for the next 8 years. I’m 100% ok with the magnifying glass and critical-eye treatment Bush has gotten here, but I want to know that it’s a two-way street. ---
**Author:** ![Rolken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Rolken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolken)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/39 "2008-11-29T02:46:26Z")
Is there any reason to believe that this whole “outrage” over Obama’s cabinet picks isn’t just another blown up and manufactured story along the same lines of the PUMAs? So far the only hint of it I’ve seen has been from the media or people who are just predisposed to complain about Obama. > [@Shodan](#): > > You can get elected (apparently) being a Rorshach inkblot, but you can’t govern as one. He’s never had to learn that lesson before. Let’s see how fast he learns it. This is, uh, an interesting statement coming immediately after you yourself quoted Obama recognizing that he will inevitably disappoint a lot of people. What did you think he meant by that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778/40 "2008-11-29T02:46:57Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I’m not saying that I wanted him to appoint unqualified people, but there are people who are both qualified, **and** not from the Clinton administration. Not many, there aren’t. Anyone who served under Reagan or either Bush is tainted and not to be trusted. Who does that leave? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wait-what-actual-or-potential-obama-disillusionment/474778.md?page=3)